98 GSXR 750 SRAD W Keeps cutting out. This is a hard one !!!

Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Here the deal 1998 GSXR 750 SRAD will fire up and run for 30/40 sec and then just die out. When you try to re-start it all it does is turn over, however if you turn off the ignition and then turn it on and try it will start. Again it will run for 30/40 sec then die. I linked out the diagnostics system and I get a C24 & C25 alarm, these alarm show that all 4 coils are bad. I have checked both the primary and secondary resistance and both are fine.
To date this is what else I have done.
Checked the fuel pumping system by joining a clear pipe on to the fuel regulator and line up back into the tank, fuel continues to flow.
I checked the TPS and again it looks fine, no alarms –coo on screen.
Checked side stand switch, again it appears fine.
Checked Crank position sensor, also ok, i.e. correct resistance.
Checked side stand relay = OK.
I am not really sure what else to go after, somebody told me that C24 & C25 were in fact total ignition faults and not just coils. He also stated that the ignition switch may be at fault but I am unsure how to check it. Any any any any any ideals I will try them all .
That’s in advance

Ivan
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sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

C24 and C25 iirc can be coils or ignition. When I say ignition I mean the little BLACK BOX not the thing you put the key into.

You need to check the wiring going into the Ignition this will include doing a voltage test off the pick ups while turning the engine over, should give out about 0.4 volts with the engine turning. check this is getting through to the ignition box. I'd run the voltage tester in tandem with the ignition to see if the pickups still work when the bike cuts out.

Then check the output from the ignition to the coil packs, make sure it is a constant even when the bike cuts out.

If the readings are all correct even when the bike cuts out you then know the problem is with the coils or the wiring leading to it.

Do all th above and let us know how you get on and I will tell you where to go from the results you have.

I have seen this before on a couple of bikes in South London, tends to be wiring faults.

Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks for the quick responses sickpup ,
I agree that the fault may be in the ECU (black box), when I was talking about the ignition, I was referring to the switch (key switch) because I was told that it was linked into the complete ignition system and that the ECU looked for return signal from the switch, but I am not sure, sound far out.
I am really keen to try out the test you suggested for the ECU, but I am a little vague as to what to do (sorry). I think I understand but would really appreciate any clarification you can give me.

You need to check the wiring going into the Ignition this will include doing a voltage test off the pick ups while turning the engine over, should give out about 0.4 volts with the engine turning. check this is getting through to the ignition box. I'd run the voltage tester in tandem with the ignition to see if the pickups still work when the bike cuts out.

Then check the output from the ignition to the coil packs, make sure it is a constant even when the bike cuts out.

Thanks in advance

Ivan.
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sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

There are 2 wires from the right side of the engine, these are the pick up wires that via the loom go to the CDI a multimeter across these while they are still connected to the CDI will give the voltage reading. If it still gives a reading when the engine fails the pick ups are fine.

Should be an intermittant reading as the engine runs from that wire that joins all the coils but I can't remember for sure what it will be, probably 12volts or so. Again check the output with a multimeter and see if the output fails when the engine stops.

When I say the engine fails you need to try and keep it running with the starter motor.

C24 and C25 as you know means left coils or CDI or right coils or CDI, might be the other way around but you know what I mean. This is a rare code to get, it's normally one or the other and if it's the CDI it shouldn't run at all so I recken its a wiring fault, possibly the earth line that runs in the wiring that joins all the coils so it might be worth running an extra wire, joining this earth to the earth on the battery and seeing what happens. This is the only thing that is commn to the 4 coils so worth a try.

If none of the above works I think you should get the Ignition tested, this company does testing click here and if its faulty either get another of ebay or get it repaired.

Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks sickpup, I will try these check over the next few days and let you know the out come,

Thanks again

Ivan.
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Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks sickpup, I will try these check over the next few days and let you know the out come,

Thanks again

Ivan.
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the grim reaper · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Karma :

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here but does your bike have an alarm fitted? Sounds like the immobiliser is kicking in to me, that cuts your ignition circuit which might explain the fact that all four coils are being reported as faulty.

I had this on my 96 Blade, the immobiliser broke and just cut the bike out after 30 seconds or so, turn the ignition off and on again and it was fine for another 30 seconds.

Cheers

Grim
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Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks for the responses Grim, a little bit of egg sucking does no harm,(ha) but to answer your question, no the bike does not have an alarm, but I see were you where coming from, I also rang the previous owner and asked if he had ever had an alarm that he maybe de-installed , but he said no, however he was no the original owner, but it does look like their was ever one.

Thanks again for your response.

Iv
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ChoppedAussie · L Plate Warrior Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Karma :

Hi there
just a thought....If your bike has a TOS (tip over sensor) and that sensor is not mounted correctly or is faulty it might be the cause of the bike shutting down.

OR if the AIT (air intake temperature) sensor is faulty this could also stop the bike.

and then if the coolant temp sensor is shorted the ecm might think the bike is over heated..this might stop the bike too...

Just a thought Very Happy

All the best and good luck...Hope you find its something simple and cheep Very Happy

Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks Chopped,
I have ruled out the TOS, it mounted correctly and meets all the Voltages and resistances as spec’d by the manual. Same for the AIT, I have petty much narrowed down to a ECU fault, therefore I have sent it away to be checked.

Thanks again for the responses.

Ivan
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harry69koi · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Karma :

Is the vacuum pipes off the tank kinked? eg producing a vacuum and starving the carbs? Lee
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Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks for the response Lee, this is the injection model, and I have linked a return line from the injectors back into the top of the tank with a clear hose, the bike continues to pump petrol until after it has cut out.

Thanks Ivan
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ChoppedAussie · L Plate Warrior Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Karma :

Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Just an update as to the stalling GSXR750

I managed to get my hands on an ECU that was removed from a race bike, I installed the ECU in the bike and the fault remained. STILL NO JOB. I really need help. To date I think I have checked out all the electrics, so I am wondering if it could be fuel related. I have linked a clear pipe on to the pressure regulator to see if the fuel was flowing when the bike stalled and it seems to be. Does anybody now if the injection system could be shutting down or something.

I need help.

Thanks

Ivan
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iceCrash28 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 18 May 2005 Karma :

Mr. Ivan Irvin!!!

Might help a littlle!!! OR NOT AT ALL Sad

My friends BANDIT GSF250 has the same problem!!!

What they did??? replaced the Sparkplugs, removed and cleaned the exaust pipes, replaced the battery...

its been 3months now with cool riding.... Very Happy

They never knew who was the culprit!!! at least it was a job well done. Smile

tk400 · Derestricted Danger Joined: 23 May 2005 Karma :

im not all that familiar with the srad or suzukis for that matter but i would look into an issue with the fuel pump solenoid....is this an efi bike...i suppose it may be as you mentioned a regulator...
it may be a prob with the coil signal to the relay or just an intermitent fault that means when you turn on it quickly runs the pump...the bike then runs on the bowls(efi?) and stalls when dry.restarting then triggers the solenoid quicly and symptoms repeat

Hope this of some help.
cheers

Phoenix · Twisted Firestarter Joined: 01 Aug 2002 Karma :

I don't know much about FI bikes having never owned one (my Gixxer750 is carbed). But I assume FI bikes have a cold start programme, similar to cars. Is the idle adjustable? If so is it set too low so that when the automatic choke stops it just stalls. Probably completely wrong.

Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks TK,
My own gut feeling is it fuel related, possible fuel pressure dropping. The injection system run like a loop system, the fuel is pumped from the tank at pressure once the injector have a slight reserve the fuel continues into the fuel regular and then returns to the tank, (I hope I explained clearly). I exchanged the return line for a clear pipe. Once the bike is started it runs for about 40sec then cuts out, the fuel continues to flow through the clear pipe (return line) for about 10sec then stops. From that I assumed that the fault was not fuel starvation. I also checked the fuel pump relay (it was the first element I check) it checked out all right on the meter. (voltages/res etc.)

Hope I gave up a little more of an insight

Thanks
Ivan
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Ivan Irwin · Derestricted Danger Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Karma :

Thanks Phoenix,
But the bike seems to stall well before any choke should kick out (bike is still to cold), and if you turn the key off then back on it starts, therefore as automatic chokes work on temp the bike seem to stall regardless.

Ivan
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tk400 · Derestricted Danger Joined: 23 May 2005 Karma :

Here is a thought looking at the emissions system it is possible that the charcoal canister could be blocked and is there fore creating a vacumn in the fuel tank. This would occur if the airvent on the tank was blocked or too small to negate the vacumn generated by the faulty EVAP system.
Easy to check start the bike with the fuel tank open and see if this solves the problem..
Its a long shot but is physical possible
Cheers Troy

tonyyzf · Brolly Dolly Joined: 13 May 2005 Karma :

I don't know if its the same but the C24 and C25 faults on the 2000 model refer to the ignition system on cylinders 1 and 2, if 2 or more cylinders have a fault then the bike will stop.
You'll need to check everything from the plugs right back to the ecu, all the sensors, wiring, etc. something is telling the computer to shut down, when you turn the ignition key off and back on its resetting the fault. Sorry I can't help any more than that.