Does it have to take a crash to learn?

[dodsi]

Il try and cut this short as its a bit of a rant more than anything.

A friend of mine who posts on this board (the reason I am posting this as he will not listen too me) basically if he carries on the way he is going will get hurt.

I have tried to tell him but he just talks over me and will not listen thinking he is right or his bike (SV650) is capable of preventing an accident.

What happens is he is going far too fast in wet conditions and on wet motorways etc.

He thinks his SV650 is happiest at 88mph because its not labouring as he thinks at 70mph he is between gears and the bike is not happy.

Someone please inform him (for when he reads this post) it is NOT the case the bike is perfectly happy riding at 70/80mph in 6th gear without labouring as to labour it would have to be below 3K RPM.

Also 88mph on a wet motorway is not a good idea, you cannot ride at that speed (90mph because 88mph IS 90mph no matter how you look at it) and be safe, the roads are wet and you cannot stop very quickly if something goes wrong and locking your front wheel could occur if in panic.

Now the person in question tells me I am wrong because his super SV650s has a differant seating postion to the bandit S that I ride and therefore it will never happen but it could to me as I dont get as much feedback from the front wheel due to my more upright seating position.

Also he thinks the bike will give him a lot of warning and will skip out and regain if things to go wrong by going too fast around a wet roundabout. And he argues again that its because he gets so much feedback from his super SV650S (did I mention this is the best bike in the world?).

He told me that I could go faster around these roundabouts and how he nearly backed into me when I was slowing down (resting my foot on back brake to show my brake light) using engine braking and going around the outside (it was pissing it down) as upright as possible and at what I deem a safe speed. Started on again about how little feedback I get from the bandit (he has only ridden mine once in a straight line when it was restricted to 33hp months ago).

Then again its dark and wet (back to this 88mph bullshit) and he carries on at 88mph.

I overtake him and signal him to slow back down to a more sensible 70mph for the road/condition as its dark and you simply cannot see. I do this a few times and he just carries on riding too fast for time of day and weather conditions.

I have tried to tell him this, he just talks over me and tells me I am wrong simply wont listen...so this is half the reason I am posting this thread up.

Im sorry this must be the most epic thread I have ever written


Also he insists in telling me that I am being dangerous on a 3 lane wet motorway travelling at 80mph (or just under) pulling out to pass trucks early so that any car that see's me indicate and want to put their foot down to pass me can do so without slowing me down.

He told me that its dangerous to do this as the "cars are backing into me" I am travelling at 80mph and there is another lane to go around me if a car so wishes too.

He thinks its safer to go 90mph with one of the big cars that go that speed beause aparantly everyone goes 90mph on the motorway.

When I try to correct him he tries to tell me he has done more motorway miles than me and I am wrong (bearing in mind I am using wet duel carrigeways every day and am trying to keep myself safe) again wont listen.

He is just being a pratt and I can see him getting hurt.

Which comes back to the title. "Does it have to take a crash to learn?"

Besides the safety issues as you know (and have read) I am a bit skint at the moment and thrashing my bike about and travelling faster uses more feul which costs more money plus you chew through more consumables than you would.

I went for the rideout today (and I couldnt afford too) and wanted to use little fuel (no harsh acceleration and travelling at very high speeds) so I dont have to fill up tommorrow which would be another £14 in fuel.

As thrashing my bike about is the differance between getting 110 miles to a tank or 150 miles to a tank which is another days travelling. I know how to keep the bike efficient and it does not involve riding at 50mph everywhere, it requires being smooth and dont accelerate and brake hard and alter speed all the time.

Tried telling him this also.

I have made many mistakes and have learnt from them and I realise winter is not the time to pratt about with my bike, for the winter I like to go steady and smooth etc. I cannot pass on this knowledge because he wont listen because he thinks he knows it all.

So I call upon you BCF as this guy wont listen to me, just talks over me spouting bollocks he has read in magazines thinking he is right.

The last thing I want is for him to crash and hurt himself or his nice new bike.

Now to the person in question, you may find what I have said unjust. But if you think hard about it you know its right.

Phew. *breathes*

[Visitor Q]

The feedback bit is shite.

The roundabout bit is shite.

But 80 is as safe as 90 on a wet motorway to be honest, aslong as you leave a big enough gap (3-4 seconds).

And bandits are shite compared to most bikes, but arguably, so are sv 650's so you can both shut it
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[Bendy]

Twat.

Let him crash, just make sure he doesn't take you with him.

[ZRX61]

Just stop riding with him, then it's not your problem.

[dodsi]

[dodsi]

[Sparks!]

SV650 rider is stupid.. except for 90mph on wet motorway.. nothing wrong with that as long as you leave a bigger gap and use your own judgment as to whether the amount of rain or traffic is relative to your speed, if that makes sense.

If it's torrential rain then 90mph is dangerous or if it's raining and loads of traffic that's dangerous but rain + 90mph on a clearer motorway for instance is fine IMO.
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[phantomtek]

I know who you are talking about, and he doesn't seem the type to want to do that sorta thing.

All I can say is if you have warned him, then you have done your bit. Sometimes a crash is alot more thought provoking and lesson teaching than any mumbo jumbo you can spout from some textbook.

I don't want him to crash, he's a nice guy. But he needs to listen!

[stinkwheel]

I think the answer is, you ride how you feel safe and don't try to keep up.

I personally am quite happy doing 90+ on a wet motorway. It is all about observation, if you can see within your stopping distance, no problem.

I suppose speed round a roundabout is also what you feel happy with. If he really is going too fast, he'll be off it sooner or later.

As to the pulling out to overtake trucks. I agree with you entirely. Pull out nice and early, as long as you are pulling out into a gap big enough to allow any following cars to move out into the next lane then there is no problem. Slightly concerned about the way you worded that though:

[ZRX61]

[Trixie]

Different people, different bikes, different style of riding.

Me and my ex are the same. We'll still take the bikes out from time to time. He's currently riding like a twat and I've told him so. I know, cos I was doing the very same thing about 5 years back. It took an accident and hospital visit for me to learn. I've certainly changed my riding style since. I'm not as impatient and I'm much smoother these days (or at least I hope I am!! ).

He won't listen either, and it'll possibly end in tears. I hope not, but sometimes it really does take an off to learn.

Playing Devil's Advocate, you've said your bit; you can't really do much more. It may be that your mate's riding is OK, but you really don't think it. Not saying you or he/she is right, as it's too difficult to say, but if the worst does come to the worst, just be there, eh?
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[biker-dj]

Pray tell me, but "how would a SV prevent an accident" to quote your friend, in my opinion it would be the rider that prevents the accident, by... riding within their capabilities, if the motorway is totally clear but wet the option of stopping doesn't come into it, as I said the road is clear!!!! I would say anticipation is another key factor and as someone else said double your distance and more from the vehicle in front, that's preventing an accident!!
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[dodsi]

Its not so much the motorway that is my main concern its the excess speeds on wet roundabouts and A roads.

88mph on we A roads at night when its pitch black, you only have your headlights.

The way I worded my maneuver probably may not sound right to you, but Im not doing anything daft just sometimes cars see you indicate and accelerate because they need to be infront, or when your approaching a slower moving vehicle and the person who drives at 80 in your blindspot in the next lane has time to get passed you so I dont have to slow down.

90mph on most motorways in the wet like I said wasnt my main concern its all the other bits.

Plus I dont want to travel at that speed due to the extra fuel it uses etc. besides the point...

its the 90mph on A and B roads and trying to corner like you would in the dry, also roundabouts.

[romperstomper...]

sorry Dodsi ,marked you post by error (well someone little pissing around on my pc )
have marked your later one to correct your
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[Claud 14.7 to 1]

Not work safe:

(Nicked from Gregster's recent thread)

Show th person this, and tell the person that's what happens if you fall off your bike and hit something solid at speed (which i'm sure is quite easy riding as fast as one might do in the dry, in the wet).

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=24989

[Hotdog]

Hi,

Lots of points to address really..

Firstly, your mate is a very lucky guy.

Both the POS SV650s I've had the misfortune to ride struggled to get to 90 and had shite handling, shite brakes and completely crap power delivery.

I rate it as probably the worst bike I've ever ridden and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually foul enough to put people off riding bikes.

Sounds like his is much better than average.

Hard to imagine any bike with a worse front end than a SV650, but I'll take your word for it.

Secondly, you have discharged your moral responsibility by mentioning your worries too him.

There is little point in this thread unless you name him.

Thirdly, you set your speed to the conditions, not to the minimum speed your bike will sit at in top gear.

If he isn't capable of understanding that you take things like, weather conditions, road surface, quality of observations etc into account when you work out your ideal speed then he will certainly learn something from sliding down the road on his ass.

And finally,

You would be best staying a safe difference from him in case of an accident.

However, that doesn't mean that you aren't obliged to fit a bulletcam and camcorder and record it all for us.



Hotdog.
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[stinkwheel]

[dodsi]

I dont think its fair to name names as I dont want to embarrass the person.

I want to help really.

Its just the absoulte crap he spouts when I try and help and inform.

About the bandit being an inferior bike...blar di blar...absolute crap! thinks he knows it all and needs to know differant.

I would never have posted this thread if he listened to me.

[dodsi]

[craigs23]

Some people just can't be told - you're not his Mum are you?

Ride to the level which you're happy with, that's all you need to worry about. If something doesn't feel safe, or you're not comfortable about a situation, don't take unnecessary risks.

By all means, take advice from others and tips on how to become a better rider, but apply them in a way that you feel happy about. We all have a level where that comfort zone is diminished; I find building up progressively is the best and most importantly, fun way of approaching new levels of biking.

[lurker]

gawd allmighty make yer mind up man
first youre saying its the 90 mph on the motorway, then yer saying it isn't then yer saying it's the 90 mph on A roads blah de blah de blah.(only joking)
theres very little difference between falling off at 80 and 90 mph on the motorway, A roads or B roads or wherever the notion takes you.
It's deffo going to hurt.
if he's within his comfort zone at these speeds then chances are he'll be ok.
Let the guy get on with it and stop trying to tell him how to ride his bike on the road.
That's what the cops are there for.

[MarJay]

[Aikman666]

Alot of the time it takes a crash to learn

I'd just say, if your going over the limit, adjust your braking distances to compensate should someone else fuck up. And compensate for everyone else, should YOU fuck up.
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[Hotdog]

[dodsi]

The SV in question is a 2005 SV650 S (faired)