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Mister James |
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Mister James I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 04:14 - 27 Dec 2005 Post subject: Speed camera windfall millions |
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Click for source
Six traffic areas clock up £1m-plus speed profits
By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 27/12/2005)
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Six road safety partnerships have each made a profit of more than £1 million from their speed cameras, according to figures released by Whitehall.
The accounts of the partnerships will intensify the controversy over cameras, showing that in some areas they do little more than cover their cost while in other parts of the country they have raised huge amounts of cash.
While supporters maintain that the cameras are a vital weapon in the effort to reduce road casualties, the devices are resented by motorists who face £60 fines and three points on their licence for each transgression.
Unless the surplus is reinvested in more cameras, it has had to be surrendered to the Treasury. However, Alistair Darling, the Transport Secretary, recently announced an overhaul of the speed camera programme, in which the surpluses - of up to £110 million a year - would go to a new national road safety fund.
The biggest surplus for 2004-05 was claimed by Northumbria Safety Camera Partnership. It made a profit of £1.7 million, with motorists in the county paying more than £4 million in fines.
One of the most modest surpluses - £15,416 - was in North Wales, where Richard Brunstrom, the chief constable, has attracted national fame for his outspoken support for the cameras. However, the total raised in fines - in a sparsely populated part of the country - was more than £3 million.
Other partnerships to break the £1 million barrier were Bedfordshire and Luton, Hertfordshire, Lancashire, Mid and South Wales and Thames Valley. In London, where motorists paid nearly £9 million, the partnership made a fairly modest £376,000 surplus.
The latest statistics served to renew the debate over the role of cameras.
Edmund King, the executive director of the RAC Foundation, said: "These figures show that there is a lot that can be spent on wider road safety improvements.
"Some cameras are money-making enterprises, some are not. I have seen a document from a road safety partnership warning that it was in danger of not breaking even and suggesting two options.
"One was to place cameras where they would catch more motorists and the other was to lower the speed threshold for prosecution.
"We have to slow people down, but the problem is that cameras were the first and last resort."
Chris Grayling, the Tories' shadow transport secretary, said the detailed figures showed beyond reasonable doubt that cameras were being used as a "stealth tax" in some parts of the country.
"It is right that they should be used where they contribute to road safety, but not as a means to raise money for other purposes."
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____________________ >Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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DEN MONKEY |
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DEN MONKEY World Chat Champion
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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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lilredmachine |
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lilredmachine World Chat Champion
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
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flat spot |
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flat spot World Chat Champion
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NSR125-Kid-UK |
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NSR125-Kid-UK Attention Whore
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Posted: 15:12 - 27 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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This might seem odd but it proves a point.
Play Need for Speed. Look at the road signs, look at your speedo. Notice how you're flying along at three times the limit, and you're not killing people as you pass?
With skill, speed can be used as safely as anything else in motoring.
If you crash in NFS, be honest. It's not because of your speed, it's because you couldn't control your vehicle. If slowing down to negotiate a turn is required, then do it, it's just common sense. There's no need to say "THIS TURN IS A SLOW TURN BY LAW" when plenty of people can negotiate it quickly and safely.
What we need is a complete rethink on whether speed limits that are posted are appropriate. There's a 30 road near me, that's six car widths wide. You can do 120 down it.
There is absolutely no reason why that road should be a 30. ____________________ https://www.bikepics.com/members/nsrandy/96rs250/ My Bike!
"I'm either going to teach andy to get his knee down, or I'm going to get him killed. One of the two" - Teaman |
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lilredmachine |
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lilredmachine World Chat Champion
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Mister James |
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Mister James I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 15:31 - 27 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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NSR125-Kid-UK wrote: | This might seem odd but it proves a point.
Play Need for Speed. Look at the road signs, look at your speedo. Notice how you're flying along at three times the limit, and you're not killing people as you pass?
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Notice how are you playing a computer game in the safety of your own home, and not actually driving a car in the real world?
Quote: |
With skill, speed can be used as safely as anything else in motoring.
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Agreed. A shame most people don't have anywhere near as much skill as they think they do. The law must legislate to allow for that.
Very few people who crash were thinking "wow, I'm a really rubbish driver" before the accident.
Quote: | There's no need to say "THIS TURN IS A SLOW TURN BY LAW" when plenty of people can negotiate it quickly and safely.
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There is when the majority of people vastly over-estimate their own abilities.
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What we need is a complete rethink on whether speed limits that are posted are appropriate. There's a 30 road near me, that's six car widths wide. You can do 120 down it.
There is absolutely no reason why that road should be a 30. |
On a local level, I believe that such things can be looked at?
I personally think that the motorways should be bumped up to 90 once you leave urban areas - no reason for it to stick to 70 once you have left most distractions behind. ____________________ >Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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Knowlsey |
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Knowlsey Scooby Slapper
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flat spot |
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flat spot World Chat Champion
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
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Posted: 18:43 - 27 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, I'm not able to draw any easy conclusions based on heresay and anecdotal evidence, so I did a little research on the whole thing.
Revenue from speed cameras
In summary for 35 partnerships: fixed penalty receipts: £112.2m, expenditure: £91.8m, balance: £20.4m. That's an average profit of £580k.
https://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/downloadable/dft_rdsafety_029194.pdf
Dft speed camera evaluation report wrote: | In 2000, a system was introduced that allowed eight pilot areas to recover the costs of operating speed and red-light cameras (safety cameras) from fines resulting from enforcement. In 2001, legislation was introduced that allowed the system to be extended to other areas. A national programme was then gradually introduced.
In February 2003, the Department for Transport (DfT) published a research report that analysed the effectiveness of the system in the eight pilot areas over the first two years (April 2000 to March 2002). This report updates this analysis to the 24 areas that were operating within the programme over the first three years (April 2000 to March 2003). Only areas operating within the programme for at least a year were included in the analysis. High level results are as follows:
Vehicle speeds were down - surveys showed that vehicle speeds at speed camera sites had dropped by around 7% following the introduction of cameras. At new sites, there was a 32% reduction in vehicles breaking the speed limit. At fixed sites, there was a 71% reduction and at mobile sites there was a 21% reduction. Overall, the proportion of vehicles speeding excessively (ie 15mph more than the speed limit) fell by 80% at fixed camera sites, and 28% at mobile camera sites
Both casualties and deaths were down - after allowing for the long-term rend there was a 33% reduction in personal injury collisions (PICs) at sites here cameras were introduced. Overall, this meant that 40% fewer people were killed or seriously injured. At camera sites, there was also a reduction of over 100 fatalities per annum (40% fewer). There were 870 fewer people killed or seriously injured and 4,030 fewer personal injury collisions per annum. There was a clear correlation between reductions in speed and reductions in PICs
There was a positive cost-benefit of around 4:1. In the third year, the benefits to society from the avoided injuries were in excess of £221million compared to enforcement costs of around £54million
The public supported the use of safety cameras for targeted enforcement. This was evidenced by public attitude surveys, both locally and at a national level.
Overall, this report concludes that safety cameras have reduced collisions, casualties and deaths |
All interesting stuff. The question really is whether you believe them. I'm sure they're quite professional in what they do, but everyone has a bias towards something.
The dft do say that in 2004, road accidents cost £18bn.
https://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_610642-02.hcsp#P57_10699
If they could reduce the accident rate with a relatively low cost scheme, it would be beneficial. My main problem with them (apart from being penalised for doing something which is merely against the law, without necessarily being dangerous) is that they're only obviously publically looking at one aspect of road safety without an awful lot of publicised effort on very many other fronts. Road user behaviour and road and junction design are far more important than simple speed. It's just that they are rather more difficult to modify and control by punitive means. We all know the government prefer punitive measures to most other things. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush. |
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m99dws |
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m99dws World Chat Champion
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 01:07 - 28 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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DEN MONKEY wrote: | Don't get me wrong I know we've all sped at some time or another but if your kidding yourself to think that it was safe to do so.
It wasnt safe you were just lucky is all. |
Absolute rubbish. UK government document (page 36 of the pdf) from a couple of months ago admitted that only 3% of motorcycle accidents were caused by speeding. Funny how they did not publicise that one much. Speeding is a very minor cause of accidents.
Check how that figure is calculated. From the above document:-
DfT wrote: | 5. The values for the prevention of fatal, serious and slight casualties include the following elements
loss of output due to injury. This is calculated as the present value of the expected loss of earnings
plus any non-wage payments (national insurance contributions, etc.) paid by the employer.
ambulance costs and the costs of hospital treatment.
human costs, based on WTP values, which represent pain, grief and suffering to the casualty,
relatives and friends, and, for fatal casualties, the intrinsic loss of enjoyment of life over and
above the consumption of goods and services. |
So the cost of a death is quoted to include "human costs" and "lost output", which are pretty much made up costs. Last time I dug the full figures out for these they amounted to about 95% of the quoted cost for a road death.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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ismunday |
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ismunday Borekit Bruiser
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G The Voice of Reason
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Kickstart |
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lilredmachine World Chat Champion
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extreme3d World Chat Champion
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carvell Scuttler
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BenBray Spanner Monkey
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 174 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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