Roads, tyres, weather, MEH.....

killa · Won't Shut Up Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :

So I got my licence back on Wednesday.
I have been enjoying the biking feeling again, can’t wait to clean her up a bit on Friday….
But, I seriously have been having some scary moments and I want some comments/reassurance things are ok.
I have on the bike some Michelins, known as the super sticky ones I’m pretty sure they are 18’s, when I was riding in the summer months these tyres have been incredible, combined with the VFR’s setup it is a really nice ride.

Since having the bike on Wednesday I have had the rear end slid out around 4 times now and not really down to too much throttle. Granted the tyres on these occasions must have been quite cold, but it’s such an easy thing to do!
The one that made me post this was my trip to an interview on Friday, coming back from Hereford (around 70 mile round trip), I had been travelling for about 25+ minutes, and the wind chill would have been roughly -2 so I was taking it steady.
As you know the roads have been gritted and after time, without a lot of rain to wash it off, this turns into a damp greasy covering on the road Thumbs Down

.
I was banking into a corner and as I came out of it I gave it some throttle, I was thinking there was grip but the rear went slightly out, I let off and all was good, but I was a little shaky as I was travelling around 40+ mph.
I can imagine there being many factors as to why this happened, but I haven’t experienced this much in a short space of time, my tyres have enough tred depth and I have checked for anything odd.

Comments?....

Killa

Tom C RX50 · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Karma :

I Have exactly the same problam, I have a brand new tyre on the back, done about 100 miles, and a good tread depth on the front too. They are good continental tyres and lately, in the last week or so I have noticed nearly every bend my back AND front slide out, im finding I am speedway riding round most the bends, foot down to make sure i stay upright.

Some pretty sketchy bends out there. The roads seem to be rediculously greasy at the moment and on the Isle Of Wight there were 3 crashes in one day yesterday!!!

Dont worry about it, its not your riding but more the shitty greasey mess covering the roads. Quick note when i was walking yesterday i crossed one road and also slipped up on foot as it was soo slippy and greasy.

English roads, officially a death trap Evil or Very Mad

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RobB · Spanner Monkey Joined: 29 Apr 2005 Karma :

Whosthedaddy · Super Spammer Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Karma :

My tyres are both new and feel like theres not a lot of grip when cold.

Riding for 30 minutes on sunday, felt the tyres once finished, barely warm Confused

The road conditions and weather are responsible I'm sure Wink

Are the tyres at the correct pressure? My bike handled like a pig when they were semi flat
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Current : MSX 125 Past : CBR 900RR Monkeybike : c50 LAC : ZXR750 H2 : FZR600 : ZX7R P3 : YW100 : TRX850: Trophy 900 T309 : GSXR 600 L0: Monkeybike : XJ6S Whosthedaddy

killa · Won't Shut Up Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :

I’ll check tonight but they do seem ok to me, anyone know off hand a rough pressure they should be?
Might be a bit silly but with a tyre that has a very slightly lower pressure than required would have more grip in these conditions. Correct me if I’m wrong..

Killa

Gazdaman · I did a trackday!!! Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Karma :

If the tyre pressures are much different than what they should be the bike will handle /very/ strangely.

As will worn wheel bearings. It's amazing how much difference that 5psi can make.

Gaz

Whosthedaddy · Super Spammer Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Karma :

dainesefreak · World Chat Champion Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Karma :

What Michelins are they?

Tyre pressure is a good start and if they are sticky tyres then the warm up will be a lot slower or non existant in these conditions.

killa · Won't Shut Up Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :

Cheers for the info guys….

So a good solid tyre pressure will be better?

Sorry I’m unsure of the type of Michelin.
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craigs23 · Mr Muscle Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Karma :

Tyres may have 'gone off' to an extent, has the bike lived outside? Plus the last time you rode was when roads were still bike-friendly - must be a bit of a change riding from one extreme to the other without the gradual changes felt/adapted to by riders who've been riding constantly.

Check the basics as mentioned above, maybe get some more winter-orientated tyres. Sticky rubber's all good and well when conditions are good, but can be lethal in the winter riding in greasy, cold conditions when they can't get up to optimum running temperatures.

Bullet · Trackday Trickster Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Karma :

if your going to ride all year round like craigs23 says, id get some more fitting rubber for ya bike for the winter months, perhaps even on another set of wheels for easy swapping? super sticky tyres are not good in the wet/cold, they HAVE to have warmed up before you give them any shit or they will turn round and bite you in the ass! ive been there and done that with some pirelli dragons i hated them! was like riding on ice when they were cold, not good for all year round but rather nice on a dry hot day id imagine, the bridgestone bt020 is supposed to be a good intermidiate all year round choice i hear but never tied them myself also if you havnt touched your suspension since the summer a few tweeks should help for the more slippery conditions out there and put it back to how it was when it drys out a bit Thumbs Up

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past: ZXR750 J1, K1 & H1, GPX600R, Yamaha Radian. present: ZXR750 J2, SP-1, CB350

vfr800 · Spanner Monkey Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Karma :

Eh Bullet, thats my signature, it's old hat now so time for a change Evil or Very Mad

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Bullet · Trackday Trickster Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Karma :

actually mate ive been using this sig in various forums and other online mediums for years not always pertaining to motorcycles. the fact that ive only recently joined this particular forum means nothing so shove it where the sun dont shine, il change it when i want to change it
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past: ZXR750 J1, K1 & H1, GPX600R, Yamaha Radian. present: ZXR750 J2, SP-1, CB350

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

If the suspension preload is set too high on the rear shock, or the compression damping is set too high, this can make the back end less likely to grip.

Hold the bike upright and get a mate to lift the rear end of the bike up to the top of the shock absorber movement without lifting the rear tyre off. Mark this position against somewhere on the seat unit against a tape measure or bit of wood touching the floor (Ie measure the height off of the floor).

Then get your mate to let go. Now measure to the same point on the seat unit.

This difference is static sag. If you weigh less than 12 stone fully leathered and lidded, you need 20mm static sag (back off the preload to increase sag, add to decrease). If you weigh over 15 stone you need 10mm static sag. Anywhere in between you need around 15mm. I would hazard a guess that either you or a previous owner has increased the preload to 'harden' the rear suspension. If that is the case the rear tyre will break away.

If the static sag is set correctly, then you are either using road legal race tyres (same as Pirelli Supercorsas) and they aren't warming up, or you're giving it too much gas.

The Michelin road legal race tyres are called Michelin Pilot Power and Pilot Power Race. The sporty road tyres are called Pilot Sport and Pilot Road.

So I'd guess in Pirelli equivalents they would be

Pilot Power = Supercorsa
Pilot Sport = Diablo Corsa
Pilot Road = Diablo

Using Pilot Powers or Supercorsas on the road, particularly on a bike that doesn't make much power can be a buttock twitching experience. My TT600 was certainly better on the road biassed Bridgestone BT010's in these conditions than it was on the Supercorsa race scrubs that I got from G.

G likes Supercorsas on the road, but then he might have a better feel for when to open the throttle, and also for how much you need to thrash the bike to warm up the supercorsas.

As I said, if the preload is right, (and the compression damping isn't maxxed out) and the tyres aren't road legal race tyres, then you just need to get used to riding a bike in these conditions again. Karma

Or it could be your tyre pressures are too high by a couple of psi... Smile

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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

Bullet · Trackday Trickster Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Karma :

i know its not origonal, i never claimed i thought of it, just the tone with which i was confronted about it pissed me right off, its a frikin signiture and is close to meaningless, doesnt hurt anyone! anyway, subject dropped now and back to the topic of slippery tyres which i was infact on untill beeing interupted!
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nonstop unicorns vomiting sunshine pills into a rainbow toilet
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past: ZXR750 J1, K1 & H1, GPX600R, Yamaha Radian. present: ZXR750 J2, SP-1, CB350

Shaun · Likes 'em bent Joined: 17 May 2003 Karma :

Simple explanation, it's the tyres.

Assuming you still have the VFR then Michelin do not make any good tyres for it. Michelin have only recently got the hang of a good tyre that works well in hot, dry conditions and that's the pilot powers which aren't made for 400's. I used pilot powers on my GSXR and they were the best set of tyres I have used so far, warmed up quickly, awesome amounts of grip and to top it off they worked brilliantly when cold and in wet conditions. Anything before those from Michelin were terrible in the wet and cold!

VTR SP1 · Brolly Dolly Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Karma :

GearboxGeezer · World Chat Champion Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Karma :

Another thing could be the fact that the tyres are old... I know nothing about these tyres but if they are a soft compound then over time they will get harder and loose grip. This may be the case but theyed have to be very soft for this to happen...

But the more likely is that the roads are just shit at the moment, Only a couple of hours ago I was coming out of a courner and I nearly high-sided myself couse there rear wheel broke loose and started spinning, and this is on a 50cc geared bike.. So im sure its going to be alot worse on somthing with alot more power.

killa · Won't Shut Up Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :

The bike has been in storage (not heated) for about 4 months, the tyres are the super sticky ones so I guess it could be a factor. Combine that with the harsh weather and shite road conditions might be making the ride not so enjoyable.
I think I would like some intermediate tyres for the coming months and then spring, so guys, what brand should I get and roughly how much are these each?

Thanks

Killa
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history

Bullet · Trackday Trickster Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Karma :

ive had faultless performance from my bridgestone bt014 tyres, they seem to have endless levels of grip in all conditions (except ice Laughing

) but they are a bit pricey about £200 for a set including fitting and my back tyre doesnt seem to last very long, about 2500 miles out of the last one. ive heard (not yet tried it myself) if you want a bit more milage then a bt014 on the front and a bt020 on the back is a good combination, and thats what i plan on trying next myself
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nonstop unicorns vomiting sunshine pills into a rainbow toilet
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past: ZXR750 J1, K1 & H1, GPX600R, Yamaha Radian. present: ZXR750 J2, SP-1, CB350

Shaun · Likes 'em bent Joined: 17 May 2003 Karma :

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

killa · Won't Shut Up Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :

Silly me!!
I’ve got bloody Bridgestone’s on, BT090S Battlax ones. DUH, sorry people…..

Thanks for all the info guys, seems to be more involved with this than I first anticipated.
I would say though this tyre was superb in the warm weather but seems to let me down ATM.
So is this sounding familier?

Killa
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :