Preventing falling while leaning in a bend

[Muzaffar]

I am new to biking and have just passed my test and bought a 600 (restricted to 33BHP). What I don't know is how much can I lean before the bike will either fall or slip on turns. Slow ones (e.g. around roundabouts) are fine because i go slow on them and keep the bike as upright as possible.

The ones I fear are when a slow road bends sharply but I am only doing 20 mph (and slowing) - or I am doing 40 mph on a faster road and the roads bends - will the bike stick if i lean more than 45 degrees at that speed? And can you sense that the bike is going so that you can either straighten or speed up (but sometimes speeding up can land you in a kerb or central barrier!)

Can experienced riders please advice so that I can know the limits of leaning safely.

Many thanks
Muz

[cathawhitt]

You will sense it m8 - just be very careful on the front brake while slowing on a bend. The bike will try and right itself or alternatively the front wheel will slide out. Your instincts should let you know how far you can go - and as you get more used to the bike you WILL become more confident!!

I can get really low on a left turn but dont trust right hand bends lol. Each to their own!


Also by our house on the way to Wigan there is a right hand hairpin bend round a war memorial. I h8 this bend passionately as I nearly always tense up - the trick is to stay relaxed.

Dave

[FreshAL]

The bike can almost certainly lean further than you would ever expect.

Just take it easy and keep relaxed, build up slowly and you'll get there. I'm still not exactly going around knee-down everywhere but in just a few months of riding I can feel that my cornering has improved no end.

Get out and ride, practice your Cornering Skills and you'll figure it out

Read up about countersteering

In fact, the whole Survial Skills website is worth reading - there's some really good stuff on cornering in there, it's helped me loads.

More good tips: Juncion27 website

[akaDAVE]

I'm still learning to tryst the bike a few degrees at a time.
I still have trouble believing the bike is going to stick when I'm cornering especially in the wet or when there is something I really don't want to hit on the outside of the bend!

I like to understand the physics involved in riding and I still find it very hard to believe that the small patches of rubber manage to hold the road. It just doesn't look feasible so it's only natural to worry.
As time goes on I still don't really believe the tyres should stick but as I gain more experience I'm developing a kind of blind faith that they will, so I just turn in and grit my teeth!.
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GSXR600

[bidman]

Well for god sake don't go trying to lean it in this weather!! wait till it gets a bit warmer and all the crappy salt has cleared of the roads so theres a bit more grip then just slowly lean more and more. After riding a while it will come naturally to you, Dan
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Don't ride it, RAG IT!!

[Muzaffar]

Thanks a lot for everyone's response - very useful - I will check out the websites - I am aware of countersteering and it definitely is a very useful technique. As you all have said, only experience will give me the confidence (although it made me more relaxed to hear that the bike will stick) - so will take it bit by bit.

Just two more things though:

1. At what speed (in the low end that would be) should i not attempt leaning too much - i.e. is 30mph good enough for a strong lean over I guess I should be more than that atleast, or is it safely possible on slower speeds as well.

2. And does slowing down coming into the bend but slowly and progressively accelarating as you are in the bend give it more stability (or is it a false sense of security i am feeling)

Cheers

[AcIdBuRnZ]

Leaning the bike at really slow speeds should be fine, and opening the throttle the bike will want to stand up again.

Just be careful in the road conditions just now though mate. All summer to practise
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Past: Honda NSR125R >> Kawasaki ER-5a2 >> Kawasaki ZZR-600e1 >> Suzuki GSXR-750Y >> Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm
"Chickity China the Chinese Chicken..."

[UrbanRacer]

look for the exit of the corner and not straight ahead at the barrier/trees/fence/kerb cos if you suddenly panic and touch the brakes thats where you will end up.

[AcIdBuRnZ]

[JonB]

There is no set speed for any corner. You will naturally lean as much as you have too.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[FreshAL]

1) The bike can lean almost all the way over at very low speeds (5mph with a good rider). What changes is your body position.
<20Mph you can counter weight - that is, to go right support your weight on the left peg, push the tank over to the right with your left knee. Bend at the waist and let the bike lean underneath you, with your body quite upright. If the bike starts to lean too far (fall over) accelerate a little bit and it will stand up again.

Faster than that it's countersteering all the way, and everything is opposite! Try hanging off a little bit as well. Just shift your weight to the inside of the turn. I found it really helped to make I was sat so my forearms were parallel with the ground before trying to hang off.

2) Yup, Slow in, fast out. If you close the throttle going round a bend at speed this will slow the bike down, and cause it to stand up and make you run wide. 'Drive' the bike round a corner on a light throttle - not too much acceleration! See Point and Squirt as well.

[Cillit-BANG]

45 degrees is actually a hell of a lot of lean.

The new ZX10 has a max lean of only 52degrees, so 45 in these conditions just isn't going to happen, especially to someone with little experience.

It is just something that will come with experience. Always make sure your tyres are warm, at least 10 mins of hard throttle riding or more before giving it any serious lean.

[Gazdaman]

The bike will very very rarely fall into a corner. Although when you lean a bike with the engine off it's feel very strange as you use the throttle to pull yourself back upright again.

And the wheels slipping out (lowsiding) doesn't really happen until about the time the pegs hit the floor (yes there are exceptions). Which is alot further than you think it is!

This is a very odd question that I've never really seen anyone ask before. Did you ever ride a pushbike as a lad?

Gaz

[Keen]

like has been mentioned, you need to look where you're going. Sounds obvious, but when going round a bend, try to look through the corner at where you want to be. If you look straight or at the kerb then its asking for target fixation. When people see hazards, natural body response is to focus on the object thats causing the danger and keep your eyes on it, on a bike this is dangerous cos it means you'll probably run right into it. Get into the habit of looking where you're going now and it'll really help
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"he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man"- Dr. Johnson

[Vin]

How about getting some training? Wait until spring and book yourself a day with an experienced instructor.

This if more evidence that the test system is useless!
Good luck and if you teach yourself go steady.
Vin

[cathawhitt]

He is just worried m8 - doesnt wanna bin his new machine! If worried ask for advice, simple. Those websites have some great info so well done!!!! Learnt a few tips myself!!

Cheers
Dave

[stinkwheel]

You are already leaning the bike, it just doesn't feel like it. I can tell because you have been going round corners, if you hadn't been leaning, you wouldn't have gone round the corner.

At anything over 10mph, the bike has to lean to go round a corner and has to be countersteered to do so, you just don't realise you are doing it.

I still don't feel like I am leaning the bike over (and I have been riding for 12 years), it is not until bits of the bike start touching down on the road that you realise how far over you have it.

My advice is try not to think about it too much, just get out there and ride the thing, your corner speed will increase with experience. Most bikes will tell you if you are trying to go to fast.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Muzaffar]

I do ride on motorways (M25 & A3) and small roads and am taking corners, so am leaning for sure. I however just sometimes felt like that i slowed down on a motorway linking bend when i did not have to (as I see other fellow bikers go faster than me on it) - just lean a bit more and leave the throttle where it was (30 or 40 mph). I asked coz, as it is was rightly pointed, it is better to take advice from more experienced ones. So thank you very much for all those who responded . It has definitely given me more insight.

Ride safely

[JonB]

A tip I can make for speed around a corner is not always to leave the throttle off, the engine braking can lead to you falling off your bike in the same way of applying a front brake. Once you have naturally found the right lean and have a good idea where the corner is heading, keep the throttle on steady for a nice smooth "roll" around the corner.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[GearboxGeezer]

Do a track day.

1. You dont have to worrie about slow tractors being on the exit of a blind bend...
2. You dont have to worrie about some1 pulling out on you when your gonig fast round courners.
3. If you do fall off, the worse you will come across is a tyre barrier or another bike, beats an 18 wheeler running over your head anyday...

[SoND]

Wait for the good weather before pretending you're rossi.
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Go back to bed - You have no rights - "Streetfighters ~ Mainstream motorcycling's crackwhore sister."

[Whosthedaddy]

When pushing harder round corners, and leaning over more, should the speed be increased?

I have tried moving arse cheak off of seat and hanging off, but I am sure that I am actually pushing the bike more upright The bike feels a bit twitchy, would more speed be beneficial
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Current : MSX 125 Past : CBR 900RR Monkeybike : c50 LAC : ZXR750 H2 : FZR600 : ZX7R P3 : YW100 : TRX850: Trophy 900 T309 : GSXR 600 L0: Monkeybike : XJ6S Whosthedaddy

[SoND]

[Whosthedaddy]

[stooster]

i think this is a great post. ive been on road for 2 years but only at slow speeds on a cg. im doing full throttle on the straights now on my er5 as i cant keep myself from doing it but find myself really slowing down for bends. it feels as though the bike knows i wanna turn and is turning sharper than id like so i slow down...... i have anly been on my er500 for 40 miles so i know theres time to learn.

again great post...im sure there are a lot of newbies reading this topic and learning a trick or two.