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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon wrote:
My point is about some of these conspiracy videos that are just plain cack. I have not done much research into the matter because depending on which web site you visit you will get a different story to the events that unfolded on that day.


Its not entirely fair to say their all cack....what is interesting though is the way people will say this whilst blindly accepting the official true story, even though it has many, many massive, glaring inconsistancies in it.

Quote:
I was having a debate on here while back with a few people about some goon complaining about the conduct in the Iraq war, I don’t think they understood just how much that really doesn’t matter on the grand scale of things, at the top, the people that run the show, these people don’t give a fuck.


Killa, fuck off.
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killa
Won't Shut Up



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
craigie b wrote:
Killa, fuck off.


Laughing Thumbs Up
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
For those of you wondering about the seemingly random attack on Killa, see here

https://bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=77204&highlight=sas+man

Killa....

You wouldn't let it lie!


https://www.bbc.co.uk/tees/weareteesside/halloffame/images/vicandbob_203.jpg
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Cookie!
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 06 May 2006
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://911myths.com/

Debunks most of the conspiracies theories.

You really do talk utter shit zaknafien.

Next you'll be telling us the holocaust wasn't real, and the Jewish people made it up Rolling Eyes
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only evidence on display there, after a brief look over, is largely attempting to remove credibility from 9/11 theories. Attacking credibility tends to be the measure of desperation rather than conclusive IMO. I will look at it more thoroughly later.
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cookie! wrote:
You really do talk utter shit zaknafien.


Could you point out the exact lines where Zaknafien was talking shit? I'm interested to know what exactly you think is shit....
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tokarev
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey guys, if you are into this topic then I can reccomend watching this; https://www.infowars.com/martial_law_911.htm (you will either have to download it using a torrent or buy it...I downloaded it of course Razz, there is a preview clip that plays on the above website, just scroll down a bit.)

The film wrote:
>> What the modern day police state looks like as thousands of peaceful protesters are forcibly detained at a Guantanamo style detention camp called Pier 57 during the 2004 Republican National Convention.

>> How multitudes of New Yorkers and others are fully aware of the fact that 9/11 was an inside job and are now actively exposing the people behind it.

>> Why the collapse of Building 7 is potentially the biggest smoking gun indicating government involvement in 9/11. Alex returns to the scene of the crime to physically dissect why the official story can be nothing else but a fraud.

>> How many of the RNC protesters are actually aiding what they claim to oppose by being deluded into thinking that a re-energization of the left will successfully counteract the Neo-Cons. Communists and socialists are confronted with the truth about the false left-right paradigm and their response only betrays their ignorance.

>> The awful truth about Michael Moore, a man with basic honest intentions but also a man who has been carefully shepherded by the culture creators to pose as the orthodoxy milquetoast of the true story behind 9/11. How Moore stood at the front of the protest for his photo-op and then spent the rest of his time eating tacos.

>> The occult and satanic underpinnings of the ruling elite families and how their oath to secret societies and each other makes a mockery of their counterfeit pseudo-loyalty to America and what it is supposed to stand for.

>> Arnold Schwarzenegger's alarming and sordid past and why his intentions should unnerve us all in light of his fated future presidential run. A womanizing, egotistic, power-mad, imperious Nazi whose ideals are diametrically opposed to those represented by the founding fathers.


So it is pretty interesting and long (about 3 hours)...talks about how new york is turning into a police state since 9/11 and how the attacks were an 'inside job'. Also exposes this secret society that G W Bush, Arnold Schwarzenegger and other high ranking government officials are part of (basically they hold Nazi values etc..)

Interesting watch.

Last edited by tokarev on 09:20 - 18 May 2006; edited 1 time in total
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cookie! wrote:
You really do talk utter shit zaknafien.


Please provide a rebuttal with some substance or shutup.

Oh and for the record https://911myths.com can be pulled apart fairly easily.
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killa
Won't Shut Up



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
craigie b wrote:
Killa....

You wouldn't let it lie!


Seem's like you wont either, you know it's true though. Wink
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Seem's like you wont either, you know it's true though


That your full o' shit? Laughing
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killa
Won't Shut Up



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I asked you to prove me wrong, you told me to stop posting.

These sort of posts prove my point.
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
What the fuck are you talking about now?
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Misc
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is very intresting. This will change you're mind. Quite long but worth it.
Not to mention the good soundtrack.

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just for info, hand's up everyone who's actually read the 9/11 commissions report?

\o.
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've read of it, and heard how it is a bit of a sham that completely whitewashs the entire thing.

You know the US government spent somewhere in the region of $10 000 000 investigating the biggest crime they ever witnessed? In comparission Bill Clintons blow job cost $6 000 000 to investigate....Go figure. I don't have a link for that so you can either take that on face value or disregard it.
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
craigie b wrote:
You know the US government spent somewhere in the region of $10 000 000 investigating the biggest crime they ever witnessed? In comparission Bill Clintons blow job cost $6 000 000 to investigate....Go figure. I don't have a link for that so you can either take that on face value or disregard it.


The figure for the investigation of Bill Clinton was $40 million US(CNN)

The initial allocation given by bush for 9/11 was $3 million US, after much pressure he eventually yielded and increased the budget to around $15 million US (Time Magazine)

Also lets not forget the investigation was only allowed to start 441 days AFTER 9/11. Every other major investigation in history(Titanic etc) started at the most 2 weeks later.

It's well documented that the government put a block on the investigation at every possible opportunity, even putting Henry Kissinger in charge at first.
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XS1954
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Joined: 22 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

Gives a few possible bits of evidence of a plain hitting the building.
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon wrote:
Gives a few possible bits of evidence of a plain hitting the building.


Yes it does, the pentagon crash is the weakest of the arguments(hence why the media loves concentrating on it)

The debris is still very inconlcusive as is the video evidence, the jury is still out on the pentagon it comes down to belief, so far the evidence can point both ways (most 9/11 theories shy away from the pentagon as it's still difficult to tell and detracts from the ironclad building 1, 2 and 7)

I personally do not believe a 757 hit the pentagon from the evidence i've seen and research i've done it still doesnt add up, as previously stated 1 engine totally missing or both if you believe the theory that the engine debris is from the APU located in the tail.

If you'd like I can hold your hand through the 1, 2 and 7 evidence.
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XS1954
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Joined: 22 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have done some research into this subject by watching the Loose Change video. I will agree that some of the subjects raised on there are credible. The way in which the WTC towers came down does look controlled and the lack of plain debris at the Pentagon does add weight to the argument.

My question is a simple one. Why?

If there is a conspiracy who or what in America would gain from doing what happened? I find it difficult to believe that the government could justify this simply to fool the American public into thinking that America was under a terrorist attack. Whilst I will admit that the video does have some strong facts I still am not convinced at some of the findings.
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tokarev
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought about that aswell Simon. But it seems the only gain from these events was that it gave George Bush the best ever excuse to go to war. Everyone was frightened of these new islamic terrorists and also angry with them and so George W Bush had their support for Afghanistan and then Iraq (which is what G W Bush really was after).

Think about it like this. Hitler and the Nazi party set up a fire in the Reichstag. Now what could Hitler gain from destroying his own parliament building in his own country? Well a Marinus van der Lubbe who was from the communist party (major opposition for the Nazi party at the time)was caught and blamed for doing it. Van der Luub was executed and the Nazi party gained support from the people and rose to a more powerful position, whereas the support for the communist party became smaller and smaller because of what had happened. Hitler took advantage of the situation to declare a state of emergency and encouraged aging president Paul von Hindenburg to sign the Reichstag Fire Decree, suspending the basic rights provisions of the Weimar constitution, which basically let Hitler do what he wanted to do.(More info: https://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/hist/fire.html)

Now in that DVD that I mentioned in my previous post it states this and how George W Bush and chums (including schwarzenegger) follow basically what are Nazi ideas. Maybe Bush took a leaf out of Hitler's book?
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 23:51 - 17 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon wrote:
My question is a simple one. Why?


It's also the simplest to answer. Why is anything done by high level government figures?

Money, Power and Influence.

The Money
The war in Iraq is about oil first and foremost and it's been the objective all along. The other factor is lucrative rebuilding contracts 'given' to US companies in closed bid sales(they give them to who they choose not who has the best offer) besides those, we have a massive increase in defence spending and military power.

I'm not entirely up on the amount's of money involved but it's into the trillions. I'll do some more research on this part later to provide more indepth info if you wish.

The Power
Since 9/11 Bush has introduced the Patriot Act 1(Passed in the middle of the night withouth congress being allowed to read it) and others, and is trying his hardest to force through the Patriot Act 2(he's openly said in the media after another terrorist attack it will be forced through)

Those act's combined basically give absolute power and destroy the US constitution and bill of right's. It will allow the government to arrest any US citizen fitting the description of a terrorist and secretly execute them(I shit you not, military judge panel).

Quote:
Dismantles court review of surveillance, such as by terminating court-approved limits on police spying on religious and political activity (sec. 312), allowing the government to obtain credit records and library records secretly and without judicial oversight (secs. 126, 128, 129), and by allowing wiretaps without a court order for up to 15 days following a terrorist attack (sec. 103);


Quote:
Allows government to operate in secret by authorizing secret arrests (sec. 201), and imposing severe restrictions on the release of information about the hazards to the community posed by chemical and other plants (sec. 202);


Quote:
Further expands the reach of an already overbroad definition of terrorism so that organizations engaged in civil disobedience are at risk of government wiretapping (secs. 120, 121) asset seizure (secs. 428, 428), and their supporters could even risk losing their citizenship (sec. 501);


Quote:
Gives foreign dictatorships the power to seek searches and seizures in the United States (sec. 321), and to extradite American citizens to face trial in foreign courts (sec. 322), even if the United States Senate has not approved a treaty with that government


Quote:
Unfairly targets immigrants under the pretext of fighting terrorism by stripping even lawful immigrants of the right to a fair deportation hearing and stripping the federal courts of their power to correct unlawful actions by the immigration authorities (secs. 503, 504).


Quote:
The government would no longer be required to disclose the identity of anyone, even an American citizen, detained in connection with a terror investigation - until criminal charges are filed, no matter how long that takes (sec 201).


These are just some of the many part's of laws passed or waiting to be passed by the US government since 9/11.

Don't take my word for it go read this stuff for yourself. Hitler just did this kind of stuff he didnt write the stuff down!

The Influence
America's rule as the world's superpower is fast coming to an end, they know this and are trying to increase influence and presence wherever possible, do you think they plan to leave afghanistan or iraq completely? ever? A few thousand peons dead a year is nothing compared to strategic bases in the middle east.

As Eisenhower said,
Quote:
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be might, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction. . . . American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. . . . This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. . . .Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. . . . In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.


He's being shown to be right in his warning.
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 01:29 - 18 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth Laughing

Here's what I think....The US is up to its eyes in debt but it can cope with this because they print the worlds currency...i.e. the dollar.

Iraq wanted to change to selling oil in Euros. Iran now wants to sell its oil in Euros. Venezuala has a system of bartering for oil...do you see the pattern...everyone who dares switch currecny to trade oil becomes an enemy of the US.

If the currency of oil was to be sold in a currency other than the dolar the US would loose its influence as a economic power house.

https://www.feasta.org/documents/papers/oil1.htm

Very, very interesting reading Thumbs Up
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 18 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
My question is a simple one. Why?


Who knows?
The millitary machine has never had it better since the cold war. One positive reason.

The US has secured a strong foot hold in the middle east. Another positive reason.

Intimidation to countries thinking of switching currencies. Another good reason.

The US has lost many civil rights since 9/11 and the government gained greater power over its population. The US now monitors all internal phone calls, emails, web usage etc which is a breach of their citizens rights.

Ultimately the question of 'why' does not negate the simple facts. If you believe the evidence laid out in front of you then the simple conclusion is that the official story is a lie, so the question of 'why' becomes the largest and most important question of all.
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zaknafien




Joined: 25 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: 02:20 - 18 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
craigie b wrote:
Iran now wants to sell its oil in Euros. Venezuala has a system of bartering for oil


The Iranian oil bourse is scheduled to open soon...

It was due to open in march but has been delayed.
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m99dws
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 18 May 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
fast_tzr wrote:
I'm another who believes the entire thing was set up as an excuse to attack Iraq,


Apart from the fact that Afganistan was enemy number 1 after 911, not Iraq.
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