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Dan 4RR
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 12 Apr 2007    Post subject: Engine braking.. Reply with quote

Hi. Which engine design would give better engine braking ability over others. For example would an inline four have better engine braking abilities over a V twin. Are 2 strokes better than 4 strokes at engine braking, etc and why???
Cheers.
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Sephiroth
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 12 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 stroke V twin although I think a single is better?
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 12 Apr 2007    Post subject: Re: Engine braking.. Reply with quote

Dan 4RR wrote:
. Are 2 strokes better than 4 strokes at engine braking, etc and why???
Cheers.


Well 4 strokes give far better engine brakeing.
The only thing a 2 stroke engine will break is the pistons.....
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cokker
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 12 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 Strokes don't really engine brake, the engine just gets faster the more you change down lol.

Id say big single and V-twins are the best, something to do with compression i think Confused
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 12 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

You shouldn't really engine brake for any length of time on most 2-strokes. Closed throttle = insufficient oil. The throttle controls the oil pump so when it's closed you're giving it oil for tickover but the engine's doing 6k revs. If you must (like on a steep hill) then it's best to blip the throttle occasionally.

Big singles have a huge amount of engine braking, you can lock up the rear if you downshift too quickly but it's more down to compression. A high compression, low revving engine will tend to have more engine braking effect than a lower compression, high revving engine.

Also the bigger the engine, the more effect. Try snapping the throttle shut on a 1340cc Harley and see how far you get.
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magpiemale
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 13 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

have done that on a z750 and it has a harsh one if slow rideing good when comming to a slow on the motorway
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Method
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 13 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

IL4 4t's have next to none.
2 Strokes have none.
4t Parallel twins have some, barely noticeable.
4t V-Twins have quite a bit, very noticeable.
4t Singles have collosal amounts.
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SoulRider
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 13 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to admit my engine braking on my sv650s means i hardly have to ever use the brakes unless needed to stop fast. i usually just tap the brake to make the light come on.

V-Twins FTW Thumbs Up Very Happy
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Deckx
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Re: Engine braking.. Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Dan 4RR wrote:
. Are 2 strokes better than 4 strokes at engine braking, etc and why???
Cheers.


Well 4 strokes give far better engine brakeing.
The only thing a 2 stroke engine will break is the pistons.....


you can engine brake a SC 2 stroke by changing (slamming) down gears, can actually get it to hop in the direction ur turning , good fun ! Very Happy
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bish777
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Method wrote:
IL4 4t's have next to none.


Small ones wont i guess, but on bigger fours 600 and up say, its noticable. On large fours -750 and up Id say they have a pretty good amount of engine braking.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
The throttle controls the oil pump so when it's closed you're giving it oil for tickover but the engine's doing 6k revs.


Throttle and revs control oil. The pump is affected by both. Still not a good idea to use engine braking for a prolonged period of time.

Whether it is a V twin or a parallel twin should make no difference. Important things are compression ratio and gearing.

All the best

Keith
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Marci
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throttle cable meters the aperture effectively whilst revs control impeller speed and thus flow rate? That right? ie - all the throttle does is reduce the restriction on the flow the more you open it but faster the engine's going faster the flowrate no matter what the restriction... which should also produce the necessary variances in delivery - as the restriction opens head pressure decreases but flowrate increases... that sound about right Keith? (just guessing)
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
The throttle controls the oil pump so when it's closed you're giving it oil for tickover but the engine's doing 6k revs.


Throttle and revs control oil. The pump is affected by both. Still not a good idea to use engine braking for a prolonged period of time.


Surely depends on the specific engine?

Method wrote:
4t Singles have collosal amounts.


Aren;t you more used to wheelying when you close the throttle? Razz

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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marci wrote:
that sound about right Keith? (just guessing)


Sounds right, although never really thought it through in any detail.

Jack_Cheese wrote:
Surely depends on the specific engine?


In theory yes, but just about all modern ish 2 strokes seem to use very similar oil pumps.

All the best

Keith
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dabigginger
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:

Whether it is a V twin or a parallel twin should make no difference. Important things are compression ratio and gearing.


I thought the number of cylinders would have a big effect on it also. For example, a 4 cylinder 4 stroke is going to fire on every turn of the crank, making it nice and smooth, a 2 cylinder 4 stroke is going to fire every other turn of the crank, and a single is only firing once every 4 turns of the crank, so there's not a lot keeping it going! So wouldn't that have some effect on it as well?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 14 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Not sure it alone is going to have any great effect on the total engine braking. Some effect from how heavy the lumps of metal are it is slinging round inside in total. More effect on how it feels / how long it takes feeling to return to your fingers when you have slowed down.

Get rid of the compression and you could turn the crank by hand.

All the best

Keith
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 15 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

Also the bigger the engine, the more effect. Try snapping the throttle shut on a 1340cc Harley and see how far you get.


My 1203cc Harley engined bike doesn't do a lot when you shut the throttle...


... but then thats because the ECU is programmed to continue to fuel the bike so you don't have crippling engine braking. Slipper clutch? Who needs 'em? Very Happy
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bish777
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 15 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dump the FI for a big flatslide carb, that'd be more fun.
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 15 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

bish777 wrote:
Dump the FI for a big flatslide carb, that'd be more fun.


Rolling off throttle mid-corner would certainly produce some touser browners!
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lumphammer
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 15 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Have to admit my engine braking on my sv650s means i hardly have to ever use the brakes unless needed to stop fast. i usually just tap the brake to make the light come on.

V-Twins FTW


Same with the old Deauville. Thumbs Up
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