A (novice) biker's dilemma...

[CortezTheKill...]

It struck me this evening riding home that I've started to get used to my 636 a little bit and am getting a smidgeon more confident in riding it.

Then I got to wondering how you know where the limit is on the bike you ride. When, for example, do you know that you've reached the limit leaning in a corner with as much power as you can get away with?

Then I thought that the only way you'll absolutely know is if you push it past its limits. But how do you know when you're about to push it past its limits and therefore don't push anymore?

We all want to be capable of riding our bikes to its limits, I'm guessing. I also fairly certain that we don't want road rash. So how do you know when to stop pushing any further.

Tell me the answer in readiness for some distant point in the future when I feel ready to push the Ninja instead of tip-toeing around everywhere.
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SV650 - TRASHED
ZX636R C6F - SOLD
Current number of wheels: 0 (not including a bicycle).

[numpty]

In the majority of cases the limits of the bike will be far above the limits of the rider.

When you are coming close the bike will let you know. This could be a small twitch or a little wobble. Whatever it is, you will almost certainly realise what it means.
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Current bike: CBR600F-Y

[pwntifex]

I learned more about biking when I stacked my first bike than I had during the previous 6 months of owning it.
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the warped one: This is a follow up from the thread 'my willy hurts'

[phk6]

the best way is to feel it, bikes offer alot of feed back weather it comes thru your arse your hands,feet ect if you can take all this feed back and put it into a picture in your head of what the bike is doing you should be ok.

for example im perfectly happy going round a corner on a nsl twisty at 80mph knowing the road is bumpy i feel comfortable with the bike jumping aorund underneath me because i can feel whats happening, its hard to explain but it is posible to feel what the bike is doing therefore going to do.

if you realy want to be good think about options for if it goes rong, ie what if my rear end steps out? keep on the gas and hopefully turn it into a nice power slide? let off the gas and possibly highside? grab a fist full of front brake?
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Current .. 2008 BMW R 1200 GS Adventure ..
Before .. 2003 Yamaha Fazer 1000 .. 2004 Kawazaki Z1000 .. 2003 Suzuki Sv1000s .. 1999 zx6r Track Bike .. 1999 CB 500 Cup ..
/Phil

[CortezTheKill...]

Well I'm going for...

[phk6]

you dont need to feel like you need to push it that will come with time, it took me 4 months before i started pushing my cb to its limits which in comparison to your ninja are very low limits, give it time and it will come.

like you im not ready to push my sv infact i dont think i ever will apart from maybe on lean angles.

if you want some top riding tips read bike they often do brillient articals on how to make your riding faster and safer. ive read most of them and have put them into practice and it does make you a faster rider as well as making you feel safer.
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Current .. 2008 BMW R 1200 GS Adventure ..
Before .. 2003 Yamaha Fazer 1000 .. 2004 Kawazaki Z1000 .. 2003 Suzuki Sv1000s .. 1999 zx6r Track Bike .. 1999 CB 500 Cup ..
/Phil

[mrtEE]

[G]

When you get to the edge of traction the bike starts to turn in a little.
Initially this doesn't feel like a slide, just like the steering wobbles slightly.

As you push it more, you will get little slides where you can feel the back end slip out a bit.
Go a bit more and if and when it comes back into line it may well throw you out the seat.

A bit more and it'll either low side or may high side if the rear grips again, throwing you and the bike in very bad ways.

I wouldn't want to be getting near those limits on the roads in general riding. If you do find the rear starting to slide, it's important not to shut the throttle - this can cause the rear to grip too violently and throw you off.
A lot of tail-end slides do sort themselves out if you keep a constant throttle (presuming it's not wide open, though even then still in a few cases).

If you're going to try finding the limits, a safe place; be it a quiet roundabout or a track is the best way.
Always, always make sure you increase you speed slowly - a little at a time. Doing this it's even possible for front end slides when leant over not to be catastrophic - though I'd definitely leave that for the track!

There are too many uncertainties on the road - road surface, crap on the road, other vehicles etc that I generally try and stay way from the limits where possible.

[CortezTheKill...]

[phk6]

[phk6]

fair enough lol, can i have one so i can track it?

swap for a cb500 heh
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Current .. 2008 BMW R 1200 GS Adventure ..
Before .. 2003 Yamaha Fazer 1000 .. 2004 Kawazaki Z1000 .. 2003 Suzuki Sv1000s .. 1999 zx6r Track Bike .. 1999 CB 500 Cup ..
/Phil

[st3v3]

cortez, we (in general) can only learn through practice and experience.
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Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done

[stinkwheel]

If you're bricking your pants, you are exceeding your own abilities. If you don't feel in control, push it no further. Back it off a little, think 'smooth' and you'll find you are actually going faster still without the sensation of 'pushing'.

I'd owned a GPZ500 for six years before I felt I was actually trying to push the bike itself harder through corners that it was capable of doing. Clues include being unable to change up a gear because there is insufficient ground clearance between the road and the gear lever, repeatedly decking bits of the bike out and squirming of the rear tyre.

If you feel the back-end starting to break away and don't get a sinking feeling in your stomach, it's probably time to upgrade your bike.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Rookie]

As far as cornering goes, I look at my chicken strips. I've gone from a 1cm chicken strip on my rear tyre to a 1-2mm strip. So I know I'm getting closer to the traction limit, but I'm not there yet. Once I have no chicken strips I'll know I've reached the bikes limit, right? If I'm using all the available tyre surface area, then there's no more grip to use. The difficult bit is figuring out when I'm reaching the bike's traction limit, and when I'm not. My right hand strip is a bit smaller than my left one. So I can assume my right hand cornering is better than my left, but more importantly roundabouts are right handed. So I'm getting the most out of the bike on roundabouts, but not on left handed turns, because turns are harder to negotiate than roundabouts, and there are no left handed roundabouts.

If I feel I've gone as far as I can go on a LH turn (and I've done that many a time) and get home and find my chicken strip on the LH side is still 2-3mm, I know it's a mental block. If there's no chicken strip, I know I've reached the limits of the corner.

Am I wrong? It just seems to me that chicken strips are the easiest way of knowing whether you're pushing your bike to the limit or not. Of course, other factors like suspension and tyre pressures can affect this, so I suppose the question is; do chicken strips measure accurately the limit of your bike in it's current setup?

[TheDonUK]

I shocked myself and a driver a bit today, was going around the outside of a car on a roundabout, really getting down low... i managed to scrape the engine bars on my bandit , forced me to stand it up and the lean back in, as the sound was disconcerting, as was the feeling of something other than my leg pushing the bike back up (or at least stopping it from learning any further)... I may have to take those bars off for some extra clearance...

[Itchy]

[.....]

Get it on the track. I've pushed mine 10x harder on the track than I ever have on the road and it's taken it in it's stride.

It has its wobbles etc but as long as you do everything smoothly then it should give you enough warning to think 'Hang on.... that means x y and z'. If you start giving it handfuls of gas and brake then the first warning will be when you're either 6 feet in the air or sliding along the floor.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey

[DEN MONKEY]

Every time you get onto the bike you are going to have different limits.
That is with every extra mile you clock up your limits will be extended if ever so slightly.
The only way to know where your limits are is to ask yourself questions just like this one and be completely honest with yourself in your reply.
Because if you aren't......... well you know what might happen.

When I first started I found a corner which was on a normal run to work and just kept a mental note of my ability to take the corner and at which speed I was doing it every week or so.
Without even making a concerted effort I realised that I was now taking the corner well above the posted speed if I wanted.
Where only not so many weeks ago I was responsible for holding cars up wanting to do the speed limit.
It does wonders for your confidence to be able to recognise improvements when they happen, no matter how small.
Better is better

If you can find something like this, you can have a good measure for how your riding and confidence are building and what you find you can handle.

Now while knee down ball draggin corners might look great and impress the mates dont forget that something else that will issue you with greater confidence is finding yours and the bikes limits when performing emergency breaking.

What I'm saying there is that there are so many areas of develpment in your riding career, that you should try and be a well rounded rider rather than a focused riding type/styled one.

As for being depressed about how far you had to go...are you mad I found that time to be most rewarding.

You're learning something new and gaining new knowledge and experience.

Take your time, learn well and enjoy the journey....
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meh