urgent help is needed.... please!! clutch wise **SORTED **

[befdelta7]

hi,
i have fitted the complete clutch unit from e-gay, but now the starter wont turn the engine over. but THE BATTERY IS FINE!! the starter engauges but doesnt turn the engine over, feels like the the piston is stuck, although it isnt.

all i can think is i have fitted the clutch incorectly.

how tight should the bolts that compress the springs be? iv done them up as tight as possible.

should they not be tight? when i removed the bolts holding the springs they wer well loose.

also whilst trying to bump start the bike in all the gears(tryed them all) the engine doesnt turn over when the clutch is released but the back wheel still spins like the clutch is slipping. any ideas on that?

iv had it with this bike now, so pissed off just want to put a match to the petrol tank!! been fixing my bike up all day and trying to solve this problem for the last hour, but as usual it got dark... my luck or rather lack of it! and to top it off the rear tyre i got from a shop (wont name and shame just yet) that i was assured was in very good usuable condition has 2 holes in it.

could some one please please help me out, like an idiot guide to fitting the clutch as you've guessed it... i am an idiot! the manual i have is complete sh1t doesnt explain how to do it.

if i could find out what the problem might be then tomorrow ill have a go at it. i personally think the bolts holding the springs are way to tight, but am open to any ideas.

thank you all very much for your replys and help.... i am very greatfull
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[Paddy Blake]

What bike is it.
The bolts should be tight.
How did you stop the clutch turning when you were taking the nut off.

Paddy.

[befdelta7]

hi,
the centre clutch nut was loose too, hand tight but had a washer with the sides turned up to stop it coming undone... its a cagiva supercity 125 (1992)

iv been raking my brains to work out what it was. im mentally and physically drained.

maybe i put a pressure plate first insted or a friction plate, would that cause the problem im experiencing? its only been since i fitted the new plates. the bike was working fine up untill i took the old clutch unit out, and replaced it. how long would it take a mechanic to properly fit the clutch? im at whitts end and will willing use the rest of my money i have for work use to get it sorted. tomorrow im going to have another go after work and see what i can do. ill take pics of the unit how it is and a pic evertime i remove a peice and post them maybe someone will be able to point out a fult with the fitting.

thanks for your reply paddy!
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[Paddy Blake]

Do you not have a manual.
Some times there is an other plate that is tapered and the top edge should
face inward.

Paddy.

[Vincent]

I know it's a bit late now but when stripping your clutch, take off one plate at a time and pit them down, the same way up, in order. that way you know how it goes back. Should be an easy fix for a mechanic if the clutch is the only problem.

[cagiva gezzer]

The workshop manual is fine. You just need a bit of interpretation.

Did you take the basket off? If so, you'll need to make sure the balancer shaft is timed right.

This piccy should clear it all up.
https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/supercitybity/Cagiva/frizione.gif[/img]
____________________
"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[befdelta7]

ji,
yes i took the basket out, whats the balancer shaft? how do you time that right?

thanks for your replys!
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[cagiva gezzer]

balancer shaft is number two. Follow the manual, but reverse the position of the piston as it's translated wrong.

Get the balancer wrong and it'll feel like a washing machine on spin.
____________________
"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[befdelta7]

hi,
i never touched the balancer shaft, just took the clutch basket with the plates out.

what position should the shaft be? like pictured on the manual??

side casing is off.. the engine turns over now by hand(turning the clutch basket) whilst in neutral, put it in gear and i can turn the clutch basket and the bike moves fowards.

the clutch its self is fine just when the casing is on the clutch doesnt turn the engine over when released whilst bump starting... just slips.

any ideas on that?
cheers
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[befdelta7]

should the clutch spring bolts be done all the way up or be left a little so that when the push rod pushes the thing (NUMBER 18 IN THE DIAGRAM ABOVE) it does acually release the plates? i did them right up to the end of the threads.
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[befdelta7]

should the clutch spring bolts be done all the way up or be left a little so that when the push rod pushes the thing (NUMBER 18 IN THE DIAGRAM ABOVE) it does acually release the plates? i did them right up to the end of the threads.
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[befdelta7]

hi,
think iv found the problem.
when the casing is fully bolted on without the original gasket the engine is very stiff to move and the starter wont turn the engine over. bit if i loosen the bolts very slightly the engine turns over easily on the button, so im guessing i need a new gasket, as i was using gasket paste. the original was destroyed when dis-assembling.

anyone in the know how think this could the problem?
if so i feel like a right plank as iv been doing this for 2days now.

thanx
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[Paddy Blake]

You need the gasket.
With out it the casing might be putting presure on the starter or clutch.

Paddy.

[befdelta7]

yer thats what i was thinking, the casing is putting pressure on the clutch. making it difficult for the engine to turn over.

do you know anywhere thats sells gaskets for the supercity? iv looked on ebay but all thats there is a top-end gasket set or a complete gasket set which is pointless as i only need one gasket from the pack anyway.

thanx
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[Paddy Blake]

You could make a gasket your self.
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=109643&highlight=make+gasket
Just be careful and take your time as it can take time if you mess up and
have to start again and again.

Paddy.

[cagiva gezzer]

Don't make one as you've already worked out that the thickness is critical.

I (wrongly) asuumed that you wouldn't be silly enough not to use a gasket.

Call mitomondo in the morning and he'll have one to you friday morning.

Before bolting it all back togther make sure the balancer shaft is lined up correctly, otherwise you'll have it ALL apart again.

Two marks on balancer (left) and intermediate (right) need to point togther.

https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/supercitybity/Cagiva/Cagiva10.jpg

https://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/supercitybity/Cagiva/Image062a.jpg

It can be fiddly, but it wont work unless you get it spot on. Read the manual. Reverse the piston position stated in the manual.

If you've removed the basket with the bike upright your timing will be out.
____________________
"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[befdelta7]

cheers paddy

i think ill order a gasket as i did try to make one earlier but it was a right pain in the arse fitting it as its got to 100% accurate otherwise it creases and moves out of position.

what would happen if i use a gasket on the clutch casing that was too big EG insted of 1mm used a 2.5mm?
would it cause impropper clutch operation, or have a damaging effect?

the gasket that came off the casing was id say 1mm thick maybe 1.5mm.
i cant beleve that a gap of 1mm can cause the problems im having with the clutch -- suppose an engine is engineered so presice that small amouts matter a lot.

thankx for your reply
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[Paddy Blake]

I don't think the gasket would be more than 1mm but 0.1mm can be all
it takes to make a big difference.

Paddy.

[befdelta7]

hi,

cagiva gezzer
i followed the manual, lined it all up and it said that there should be 7 teath from mark to mark. (7 teath from the mark on the number 2 shaft to the mark on the number 4 shaft on your diagram) i have a few marks on the teath of the shafts and the basket already so i lined them all up followimg the diagram on the manual, so that is all fine.

just got to get the gasket now, as above im not making one ill buy a genuine one!

[Paddy Blake]

Yep.

Paddy,

[befdelta7]

hi,

when i get a new gasket i'll let you all know if it solved the problem(you will know anyway i suppose as ill be back asking for more ideas if it dont LOL)

thanx for your help and advice... karma for each and every post thats been posted!

james.
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.

[Paddy Blake]

Best of luck with it James and I hope it all works out well.

Paddy

[befdelta7]

hi,

the problem has been sorted

new gasket on it... bam! it s all working fine, the bike runs well now. clutch is brilliant, i accually feel more power now as the old clutch was well worn and slipping.
the bikes happy as its had four oil changes since last week when i started the job LOL. just got to get my new tyre fitted today, fit the ktm looking headlight and alls done.
thanks for all your help and replys lads! an E-pint of the finest beer coming your way!
____________________
Dont do a wheelie in front of a traffic copper... it gets you 3pts and £220 fine.