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ColdInsomnia
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: How sympathetic are you? Reply with quote

Here's one for ya,


My girlfriend has a relative who is about 40 years old (though he looks over 50). As with most of my girlfriends family, he's been smoking like a chimney all his life. Aside from what I understand to be a short span of work as a taxi driver, he's never had a job (also along with most of my girlfriend's family). He's also largely overweight (Not HUGE, most of his weight is in his belly - he honestly looks 9 months pregnant. Really weird).

In the last few years, he has had 9 heart attacks and two strokes. He is currently in hospital because he also has kidney stones. After all this, he is still going outside the hospital every 30 minutes to have a fag.


Does the term "flogging a dead horse" come to mind?!?!
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a Charge Nurse on a Coronary Care Unit and this sounds like a huge proportion of my patients. People don't learn or listen, not sure which and the number of 'repeat offenders' is just stupid.

Everyone deserves the best, most appropriate treatment or therapies.
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ColdInsomnia
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whosthedaddy wrote:
I am a Charge Nurse on a Coronary Care Unit and this sounds like a huge proportion of my patients. People don't learn or listen, not sure which and the number of 'repeat offenders' is just stupid.

Everyone deserves the best, most appropriate treatment or therapies.


But even the best treatments we have today are only a temporary fix if the patient is too stubborn to change their ways.

Personally I see it as an insult to every doctor and nurse in that hospital, and a general waste of tax-payers money.

I'm glad we have a National Health Service (even if it is going down the pan), but is there really any point in prolonging the lives of people who just don't seem to care, when there are plenty of opportunities to spend that same money, and use that same hospital bed on someone who really needs it?
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Ben.
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont agree with that, you chose to ride a bike, knowing full well you have a higher risk on dyeing tomorrow than someone whos in a car, so if u do crash, and get all fixed up and go back on the road on 2 wheels only to crash again and end up in hospital, would you think it fair that they just tossed you out on your ass because they told you to buy a car?
I know that example has holes in it, but it illustrates my point.
Its a lifestyle choice and you and everyone else in the world have no right whatsoever to say that because you dont agree with his lifestyle, that someone else should have the money spent on them.
Big headed, no?

Then again i have no sympathy for smokers, they want to carry on doing it then fair enough, treat them the best you can, but dont expect me to sympathise over you, you chose your path, even against the advice of everyone else.

You chose how to make you cake, we will offer advice on whats the best ingredient's and by all means we will help you to try and make it tastier, but if you use shit as an ingredient dont moan if it takes like shit at the end of it.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdInsomnia wrote:
But even the best treatments we have today are only a temporary fix if the patient is too stubborn to change their ways.

Personally I see it as an insult to every doctor and nurse in that hospital, and a general waste of tax-payers money.

I'm glad we have a National Health Service (even if it is going down the pan), but is there really any point in prolonging the lives of people who just don't seem to care, when there are plenty of opportunities to spend that same money, and use that same hospital bed on someone who really needs it?


Right. Better start arranging NI and tax refunds for all those smokers they're refusing to treat...
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdInsomnia wrote:
But even the best treatments we have today are only a temporary fix if the patient is too stubborn to change their ways.


Everything is only a tempory fix. Nobody has yet lived for ever.

From a cruel and heartless point of view the smokers temd to die around retirement age, saving the country a fortune in pensions and expensive routine ops like hip replacements.

All the best

Keith
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Last edited by Kickstart on 19:25 - 01 Oct 2007; edited 1 time in total
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colin1
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have sympathy.

He isnt in control of his life.

He cant help himself.

He needs some paul mcKenna motivational stuff or something, but then so do I and im not as bad as him.

Its hard to change habits, or patterns of behaviour. Its easier for him to accept his fate rather than try to avoid it.

I think raising the smoking age to 18 may help make it more difficult for some kids to get ciggies which may mean fewere adults become hooked.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

But as a smoker he has paid a ton of additional tax.

If it turns into a US system then ok taxes drop but no med insurance.

the same arguement can be made for bikes etc.... or George Best

Restrict one thing on the NHS ...... eventually the NHS will only treat people who have never eaten anything with any fat content, breathed unfilted oxygen, or gone outside their own house or done anything... slippery slope..
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 01 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

half_lyfe wrote:
i dont agree with that, you chose to ride a bike, knowing full well you have a higher risk on dyeing tomorrow than someone whos in a car, so if u do crash, and get all fixed up and go back on the road on 2 wheels only to crash again and end up in hospital, would you think it fair that they just tossed you out on your ass because they told you to buy a car?
I know that example has holes in it, but it illustrates my point.
Its a lifestyle choice and you and everyone else in the world have no right whatsoever to say that because you dont agree with his lifestyle, that someone else should have the money spent on them.
Big headed, no?

Then again i have no sympathy for smokers, they want to carry on doing it then fair enough, treat them the best you can, but dont expect me to sympathise over you, you chose your path, even against the advice of everyone else.

You chose how to make you cake, we will offer advice on whats the best ingredient's and by all means we will help you to try and make it tastier, but if you use shit as an ingredient dont moan if it takes like shit at the end of it.


Wow - That one post made me change my whole attitude towards that. I used to think 'f**k em', but when you put it like that it is apparent how right you are!
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ColdInsomnia
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PostPosted: 02:13 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
But as a smoker he has paid a ton of additional tax.


Not really. As I said in my original post, the guy has hardly worked a day in his life. Any money that he pays in taxes came from the tax-payer in the first place, so it's just being moved around the system.
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"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
John Lennon
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ColdInsomnia
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PostPosted: 02:16 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I might have worded my original post a little badly since some people seem to have the impression that I'm a heartless bastard who wishes a slow painful death on any smoker.

My main gripe, is the fact that this guy has hardly ever worked. You mention that he's welcome to his own lifestyle choice, does that include sitting on his arse all day to take your hard earned money when his arse starts to get sore?
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"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
John Lennon
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Nufkamp
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PostPosted: 05:34 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only things the NHS should not fund are the likes of tattoo removal, breast enlargements, sex-swaps etc. None of these are life threatening and should only be done privately - keep the NHS money for saving lives.
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdInsomnia wrote:
I think I might have worded my original post a little badly since some people seem to have the impression that I'm a heartless bastard who wishes a slow painful death on any smoker.

My main gripe, is the fact that this guy has hardly ever worked. You mention that he's welcome to his own lifestyle choice, does that include sitting on his arse all day to take your hard earned money when his arse starts to get sore?


Nah, I agree. A fucking parasite gets his ticker fixed at great expense whilst some poor old granny somewhere will never walk properly due to lack of funds for a quick hip replacement. Its not right but until someone can think of a better system its the only one we have!

Quote:
Its a lifestyle choice and you and everyone else in the world have no right whatsoever to say that because you dont agree with his lifestyle, that someone else should have the money spent on them.


The simple truth is the exact opposite...Someone does have the right to say who gets treatment and who doesn't. Councils, Nurses doctors...their all just normal people like you and me and they do have to make that decisions because when reality strikes its up to a person to make a call. The most relevant thing is the post code lottery for cancer treatment.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdInsomnia wrote:
My main gripe, is the fact that this guy has hardly ever worked.


Ah, that's better.

NO NHS TREATMENT FOR DOLE SPONGES!

You could start your own political party with just that as your manifesto...
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ColdInsomnia
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:
ColdInsomnia wrote:
My main gripe, is the fact that this guy has hardly ever worked.


Ah, that's better.

NO NHS TREATMENT FOR DOLE SPONGES!

You could start your own political party with just that as your manifesto...



Again, you take my point out of context. This man has absolutely no interest in working. That means working to earn a living, or working to keep himself healthy. Absolutely none.

NHS treatment should be entitled to people that don't work. Of course it should - that's the point of a National Health Service, it should be entitled to everyone.

But spending so much time and money to very slightly increase the lifespan of someone who doesn't give a shit, when there are people dying on waiting lists over a year long, just makes no sense.
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"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
John Lennon
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akaDAVE
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the NHS set up, I believe everyone is responsible for cooperating to make sure thier treatment is worthwhile and effective.

If someone has smoked all thier life and has a fatal lung disease that needs treatment then they should get it. But if they continue to smoke then they are taking the piss, wasting resources and should be left to die.

The same applies to alcahol, the other big demon.

I knew a bloke at work that was about 50 who had smoked 20 a day for much of his life but wanted to quite after 2 heart attacks and an evil cough.
He did actually manage a year by the time I'd left, simply motivated by the realisation that he was going to die if he carried on.

To be honest I didn't give him a chance in hell as I'd given up after only about 6 years of smoking and I found it near impossible.

If the prospect of a painful death doesn't change someones attitude then all the treatment in the world is a waste of time.
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Ben.
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdInsomnia wrote:
I think I might have worded my original post a little badly since some people seem to have the impression that I'm a heartless bastard who wishes a slow painful death on any smoker.

My main gripe, is the fact that this guy has hardly ever worked. You mention that he's welcome to his own lifestyle choice, does that include sitting on his arse all day to take your hard earned money when his arse starts to get sore?


i don't think your heartless Wink
i think hes intitled to make his own choices in life, and that the NHS should treat him, as for sitting on his ass doing nothing, no i dont agree with it, if he is perfectly able to get a job then he should, that is not a lifestyle choice, that is a fundamental rule of society, its unfair to leach off others, by all means rescue i bum if hes on fire, but dont give him the matches and gasoline to start it.... if you get my drift? Neutral .... the gasoline and matches are dole money btw Neutral
im confused... Neutral
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Brod122
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 02 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

half_lyfe wrote:
Its a lifestyle choice and you and everyone else in the world have no right whatsoever to say that because you dont agree with his lifestyle


Sounds like lazy good for nothing to me, eating badly is greed, smoking is careless, thank god some people got off there arses and advanced the human race to a point where we can allow people to do this, eh?

Heartless judgment, i know.

Oh, also, if hes never had a job hes claiming our hard-earned benefits, so we have a right to tell him.
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