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| killa |
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 killa Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:46 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: New energy, speed, science question... |
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So that particle accelerator thingy was on the nes yesterday, its being upgraded and then will be running next year. They are talking of new physics that will be found.
I’m assuming that propulsion will be something they’d be looking into, powering anything without much waste etc…
So, in space, if you have a craft of today’s spec and gave it engines like those on the enterprise, when you enter space and give it the beans how the hell will it hold?
I have images of them giving it full power and the thing implodes, disintegrates, atomises. This would be due to G force, drag etc… I know there is no oxygen in space, but any atmosphere will be punched through. Will it be a case of them having the power to get to the moon in an hour, but no craft to do it?  ____________________ Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history |
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| McGee |
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 McGee O RLY?

Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Karma :  
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| killa |
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 killa Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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| pa_broon74 |
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 pa_broon74 World Chat Champion

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 15:23 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Don't know about now, but in star trek they use force fields.
"Losing structural integrity Captain..."
In the real world (or universe) I think as long as you do everything gradually (no quick turns or accelerations) it would be ok. Plenty of space in, ummm, space to turn around.
I think any ship built would be so massive, it wouldn't be able to do any abrupt manouvres. ____________________ Didn't catch anything. |
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| ncrn |
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 ncrn World Chat Champion

Joined: 24 May 2006 Karma :   
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 Posted: 15:24 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Well in space there is no air as you pointed out so you could rapidly accelerate with no real consequence to the ship in theory. I guess there would be problems with space debry hitting the ship and that could cause some damage.
It is possible that the ship could only go into orbit of a planet and from there a smaller ship would have to go to the surface one built like the current ships we use.
I'm not really sure they'll even find anything from this collision they're going to do, I hope its something cool though. It does make me laugh hearing theories from people suggesting that it will destroy the world when it happens.. ____________________ Past: 55 Sym Jet, 91 ZZR250, 03 NSR125R. Present: 97 ER-5.
https://www.nsr125.co.uk - NSR Owners forum. |
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| Visitor Q |
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 Visitor Q $25 whore

Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 15:30 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Drag is a force caused by the friction of pushing through molecules in the air. Air is considered a fluid, just of less viscosity then water etc.
Hence you want a smooth shape.
In space you dont need that. No oxygen
However any large ship would have to be built in space as youd never be able to get it to escape the earths (admittedly piss weak) gravity.
Also bare in mind all these drive just tend to work by forcing mass out the back, to push themselves along. It would be the stopping that would worry me.
But the actual hadron accelerator or whats its business (do a search for 'were doomed', was a thread on it a month or so back) is mainly for discovering new particles as i understand it.
The logistics of space travel hurt my brain, but i doubt we're going anywhere anywhere soon. Although i guess they could always use drives for cleaner, quicker travel round earth. ____________________ China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule... |
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| ncrn |
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 ncrn World Chat Champion

Joined: 24 May 2006 Karma :   
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| Scotch Bonnet |
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 Scotch Bonnet Scooby Slapper

Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Karma :     
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| Annabella |
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 Annabella Like a person, only smaller

Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:10 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Arthur C Clarke invented a very simple shield to use in front of ships. He suggested using an ice shield comprising of hexagonal blocks of ice all linked together.
Songs of Distant Earth = a favourite book*
*Christmas stocking filler recommendation for Sci-Fi lovers. ____________________ Avast! Pirates ahoy!
I did Cadwell!
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| pa_broon74 |
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 pa_broon74 World Chat Champion

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Karma :     
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 Visitor Q $25 whore

Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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| killa |
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 killa Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:21 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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So if you travel in a modern day ship at new rediculous speeds with this new propultion unit, would the front of the ship become far too hot or would it be no bother because there is no air?
If so, would it just be the forces on the ship if the craft had to perform a manouvre at this speed that would potentionally blow it to pieces? ____________________ Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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| Hetzer |
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 Hetzer Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:26 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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A ship capable of moving that fast would need some kind of field that would hold every molecule in the same relative position (I think Star Trek calls it an 'Inertial Dampening Field'). Something that would be part and parcel of an anti-gravity drive (so my intuition tells me). The same field would also act as a shield.  ____________________ "There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!" |
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| Fawbish |
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 Fawbish World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:32 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The logistics of space travel hurt my brain, but i doubt we're going anywhere anywhere soon. |
I wouldnt say that.
At the moment theyre developing something called an electrosail
Basically, creates a massive (think 2-3 km square) "sail", using electromagnetic fields? (or so I've read, my terminology is shite - i was out last night and am still rough lol)
This sail latches on to light particles - light that is given from the stars moves extremely quick, and theyve figured that capturing this light and transforming it into moving energy is a good idea.
They reckon instead of it taking a life time to get to the edge of our solar system, their simulations say it would take 15 years to reach it.
I find this sort of stuff stupidly interesting - and think its well worth following.
As for the particle accelerator thing - theyre trying to re-create the big bang on a molecular level arent they? Id have said the big bang was on a molecular level before, for it to have worked....therefore I wouldnt say it was out of the question to possibly worry that it might destroy the earth or take a large chunk of it out
EDIT: And taking hetzer 's point, if you needed a gravity drive as a pre-requisite, that would solve the problem of having to build the ship in space - and you could build it on earth, yes? ____________________ "Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."
Last edited by Fawbish on 16:36 - 13 Dec 2007; edited 1 time in total |
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| Visitor Q |
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 Visitor Q $25 whore

Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:35 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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| Fawbish wrote: | | Quote: | The logistics of space travel hurt my brain, but i doubt we're going anywhere anywhere soon. |
I wouldnt say that.
At the moment theyre developing something called an electrosail
Basically, creates a massive (think 2-3 km square) "sail", using electromagnetic fields? (or so I've read, my terminology is shite - i was out last night and am still rough lol)
This sail latches on to light particles - light that is given from the stars moves extremely quick, and theyve figured that capturing this light and transforming it into moving energy is a good idea.
They reckon instead of it taking a life time to get to the edge of our solar system, their simulations say it would take 15 years to reach it.
I find this sort of stuff stupidly interesting - and think its well worth following.
As for the particle accelerator thing - their trying to re-create the big bang on a molecular level arent they? Id have said the big bang was on a molecular level before, for it to have worked....therefore I wouldnt say it was out of the question to possibly worry that it might destroy the earth or take a large chunk of it out  |
Aye... 15 years to reach our solar systems edge... Find out how long it would take to get to the next solar system, let alone inhibited planets. ____________________ China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule... |
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| Ben. |
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 Ben. World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:49 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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even if you can travel at the speed of light (were not even close to it yet) it would take a few life times to just reach another solar system. then when you take into acount the size of stars in other galaxys, they would quite happily swallow the space ship thingy if it cant even escape earths atmosphere. black holes are everywhere as well. im quite happy to stay on earth thanks...  ____________________ follow my racing season
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| Hetzer |
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 Hetzer Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :     
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| Hetzer |
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 Hetzer Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :     
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| Scotch Bonnet |
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 Scotch Bonnet Scooby Slapper

Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Karma :     
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| Ben. |
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 Ben. World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Karma :  
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| Scotch Bonnet |
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 Scotch Bonnet Scooby Slapper

Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Karma :     
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 Posted: 17:13 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Ah, screw this, I'm gonna do my own space thread, with Blackjack and Hookers.  ____________________ Hmmmm..... is it supposed to do that?
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| Visitor Q |
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 Visitor Q $25 whore

Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 18:40 - 13 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Righty, lets save time. Im very busy at the moment and cant arsed ranting again...
Heres the last thread on the matter, second half covers space travel pretty well
We're doomed! ____________________ China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule... |
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| stinkwheel |
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 stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :    
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| Phoenix |
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 Phoenix Twisted Firestarter

Joined: 01 Aug 2002 Karma :    
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 Posted: 04:06 - 14 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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Xenon propulsion (Ion) has been in use for a while, think there was a recent one launched. But it still relies on Xenon gas reserves, and the increase in speed is so slow that I imagine, can't be sure without calculating it, it'd take thousands of years to approach the speed of light, by which time the gas would've run out, frozen solid or the ship would've been destroyed.
The problem is when you start hitting ridiculous speeds so much as a bit of rock the size of a ball bearing hitting the ship would probably be able to cause absurd amounts of damage due to the speed involved, which is why some kind of shield would be needed. There's also the case of space gases, nebulae etc which would be similar (but not as severe) to flying through an atmosphere in terms of friction.
Ice shield, made of hexagonal blocks of ice. Novel, but i don't see how it could possibly be of any use at stoping million mph lumps of rock in space.
I've always thought the best way of making something go really fast would be to build a centrifuge in space with the probe mounted on an arm, so to slingshot it. Could possibly go in the completely wrong direction when released if somebody doesn't calculate things correctly, or rip the whole thing to bits when it reaches a certain rotational speed. Be a one way trip of course too, could volunteer a few people here for that one?  |
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| killa |
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 killa Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 09:40 - 14 Dec 2007 Post subject: |
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I remember reading somewhere that space rubbish floating around the earth travels fast, so quick infact a bolt could pass through you so quickly you probably wouldn't notice at first.
This always bemused me as there are satellites out there that have been functionaing for years, i imagined with all the crap up there they would end up looking like some sort of cheese with loads of holes in.
It does boggle my mind how you can be travelling at something like 10,000mph or so and avoid space debris. A rock the size of a golf ball at that speed packs some punch surely, so the ship would have to be made from some heavily thick armour, or indeed have some sort of force field.
I don't know how to calulate G-force but does G-force only exist when you have gravity? ____________________ Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 301 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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