|
|
| Author |
Message |
| blahheed |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 blahheed Trackday Trickster
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Pete. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 00:45 - 26 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
Best to leave it alone - a rough surface in the inlet tract is preferable over a smooth one anyway. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Dalemac |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Dalemac World Chat Champion

Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| chillpill |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 chillpill World Chat Champion

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| The Artist |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 The Artist Super Spammer

Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Karma :  
|
 Posted: 02:28 - 26 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
turbulence = good. mixes better.
its why butterfly throttles work I think. They are designed to not be perfect otherwise fuel and air would not be mixed enough.
back up please..  |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| sickpup |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 sickpup Old Timer

Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| rotax81 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 rotax81 Nearly there...

Joined: 10 Sep 2008 Karma :   
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Pete. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 14:41 - 26 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
I don't know the mechanics of it but basically as Rotax said the molecules of air touching the surface it's flowing over (called the boundary-layer) are almost stationary. The smoother the surface, the better they stick to it, and the layer gets thicker as you move further down the surface. The rough surface of the port helps prevent this by stirring the molecules up. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| sickpup |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 sickpup Old Timer

Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Coxyzxr |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Coxyzxr Brolly Dolly

Joined: 22 May 2008 Karma :   
|
 Posted: 15:00 - 26 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
I got a very brittle, dry leaf stuck down one of my inlets once litrally fell out of the tree and into the inlet tract when I had the carbs off in the back garden. Tried getting it out with long nose and tweezers but it just fell apart into tiny pieces. I just bolted her back together and went for a spin.
That was the last I heard of old leafy...
Back on topic rough surface can also aid swirl. Don't listen to the old skool mustang crowd or gran turismo's tuning tips, port 'polishing' isn't a good idea for perfoamnce or fuel ecom. ____________________ **WAS FITTED "WRONG WAY ROUND" !** CANT ACCOUNT FOR THE STUPID ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| chillpill |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 chillpill World Chat Champion

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Karma :  
|
 Posted: 12:37 - 27 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
cool , a good bit of info right there  |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mr Hammers |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mr Hammers World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Karma :   
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Coxyzxr |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Coxyzxr Brolly Dolly

Joined: 22 May 2008 Karma :   
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mr Hammers |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mr Hammers World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Karma :   
|
 Posted: 13:03 - 28 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
I'd have thought that the speed of the airflow was pretty important, after all, whatever the given explosive potential of the mix, it being mixed well or not, if the engine can process more of it the power it could produce.....nicht war..?
Assuming for the sake of argument that that is true, i suppose it then becomes a balance (or compromise...depending on how you look at it) between enough turbulence generated by a rough intake to mix it all up and not lose droplets of fuel....and, a fast throughout of mixture made possible by a smooth intake.
Here's a hastily drawn graph to demonstrate;
https://www.planetash.net/bcf/mix-graph.jpg
As the smoothness increases, the ability to force more of the mix goes up, but the actual efficiency (or explosive potential) goes down.
As the roughness increases, the ability to force more of the mix goes down, but the efficiency goes up.
And then, where the two meet is the best combination of rough/smooth and less/more mix processed.
Does any of this make any sense.... or am i talking out of my graphs...?
Edit: Dang. Can't help feeling that that graph is just..wrong. Tried doing another (oo i love graphs, me...) but i'm not sure this one accurately reflects the point either, tbh.
https://www.planetash.net/bcf/mix-graph-2.jpg ____________________ A Guide To Powerbands |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Pete. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 21:41 - 28 Nov 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
The whole point is that the rough surface allows a faster overall airflow, not the smooth one. Intake velocity IS important because with velocity comes momentum so more air-fuel mix gets into the cylinder past the closing inlet valve. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mr Hammers |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mr Hammers World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Karma :   
|
 Posted: 12:58 - 03 Dec 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
| Geri wrote: | The whole point is that the rough surface allows a faster overall airflow, not the smooth one. Intake velocity IS important because with velocity comes momentum so more air-fuel mix gets into the cylinder past the closing inlet valve. |
Right, right, i see what you're saying.
Since you posted i've read up as much as my spare time will allow, and i'm still confused, if not more so as i was before. While some places agree that 'smoother=stickier', others appear to say 'rough=turbulence=drag'.
I do accept on the face of it the premise that a rough surface means a faster overall flow, but it's so counter-intuitive that i'm struggling to really convince myself that this is true.
However i look at it, i can't help coming back to the 'but...but it *must* be faster if it's smooth!' mindset. That said, if i were a gambling man, i'd put my money where *your* mouth is, despite my inability to fully accept the fact that rough = fast.
Another thought then, assuming that there must be a point where too rough means it is definitely slower, how rough can a surface be before it starts to have a negative effect...? ____________________ A Guide To Powerbands |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Vincent |
This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.
|
 Vincent Banned

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :    
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| stevo as b4 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| fra-zzr |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 fra-zzr Spanner Monkey

Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 00:42 - 04 Dec 2008 Post subject: |
 |
|
its the same principle you find in golf balls, although from a different perspective as its the air/fuel moving and the ball (inlet staying still) . The bumps cause drag initiailly but less chance of separation of fuel/air because of increased adhesion from the inlet face, so less wake
turbulent flow > laminar flow (polished face would give this)
Finally marine biology found a use  ____________________ 04' Hyosung Comet Gt125
96' zzr600 |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 323 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|