advice needed about claiming back ?150 seized bike fee

[mrtEE]

Hi,

2 weeks ago I was riding my girlfriends bike to work and was stopped by a nasty copper. He said I wasnt insured to ride the vehicle so I got my brokers on the phone and they told him I was covered to ride the vehicle.

He said the bike was coming up as uninsured and he called the underwriters and they said I was not insured! However he was clearly told by the brokers (the ones that issue the policy to me) that I had insurance to ride someone elses bike. I also got them to send me a copy of my documents as I couildnt find the original and it does indeed confirm that I can ride other vehicles.

When he said he was seizing the bike I told him my girlfriend would be along in 2 minutes as she commutes on the same road at this time and she can park the vehicle up on her insurance. She duly arrived 2 minutes later and even when she was on the scene he still proceeded with the vehicle seizure.

He seized the bike and it cost me £150 to get it back plus a 2 hour wait at the pound and a lot of frustration.

I was also given a producer and I ahve handed in my documents at a station and they have been verified as correct. HE has also given me a ticket for 6 points for no insurance (despite the twat giving me a producer!) so I also have to go to court to contest the fine.

Who do I apply to to get the £150 back as the vehicle should not have been seized? I have written to the courts and enclosed aq copy of my insurance docs so hopefulyl the case will never go ahead.

[Mr.Everready]

Was it insured specifically by your girlfriend ?
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the undemocratically unelected mod of the Scottish section

[mrtEE]

[Feasty]

Sounds like you need to get a complaint put in sharpish, isn't it through the Police Complaints Commission or something like that? Comes across that the copper was completely out of order and being an utter arse, especially after all the effort you went through to prove everything was legal.
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Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).

[Mr.Everready]

Why was it coming up as having no insurance in the first place ?
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the undemocratically unelected mod of the Scottish section

[Mr.Everready]

Have the Police seen your girfriends documents ?
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the undemocratically unelected mod of the Scottish section

[njd27]

What does https://www.askmid.com/ say?

[map]

Ok, to put one side.
The police officer was only doing his job and can only act on the information received.
In the case of conflicting information to err on the side of caution (i.e. worst case, no insurance).
A known scam is to get insurance, get the documents then cancel it.
Documents say 12 month, insurer says not insured, broker may not even know it's cancelled.

However, for the other side.
A bit quick on the seizure.
You could have offered he follow you home there and then for the documents (done it on traffic cop tv programme!). However, as you'd not know where they are probably better you didn't offer, makes you look more guilty plus wasting his time.

IMO if all your ducks are in a row (documents valid, dated, verified, mot ok, etc.) then go to court and plead not guilty.
I take it you did the producer ok.

Go and have a word with a solicitor about this though.
Make sure you get one who knows traffic law, trust me, they all don't.

Again IMO, the CPS should take one look and plead no contest. After all, it's them and the police who would look stupid.
Make sure the solicitor asks for costs to be awarded to you.

As for getting the seizure fee back have a word with the solicitor for advice.
If he umms and arrs then the worst you can do is send the Chief Inspector an invoice for the amount.
Be professional, no accusations or rants, put on it if they don't pay you will seek court action.
Then if you still haven't the money you can do a small claims online (still costs though, depends how much you ask for - do a google).

HTH
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...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?

[mrtEE]

[Mr.Everready]

Why didn't you take her insurance ? I know you wern't asked but it would have stopped the problem there and then would it not ?
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the undemocratically unelected mod of the Scottish section

[Mister James]

Good practise with Op Reclaim seizures is to see if there is anyone within a reasonable travelling distance that can drive the vehicle away - like your missus.

I suppose the problem was that the bike was coming up as no insurance - and I assume that your girlfriend didn't carry her certificate on her.

As the bike is flashing up a big red marker in his car - AND the underwriter says it isn't insured, it's hardly surprising that the PC chose to deal with the facts he had in front of him and lift the bike.

I doubt very much that you will be able to pin anything on him for being unreasonable - he's made efforts to dig a bit deeper than he had to, and he's acted within the law. If - according to his information - neither you or your missus has the ability to legally drive the vehicle he had little choice but to lift it.

A 6 point/£200 fine is standard (obligatory, even) in those circumstances, unless you are actually reported for the offence by way of a summons.

On that basis I think you would struggle to get any money back off Old Bill for the seizure, as they can rightfully say they acted on good faith within the letter of the law. Just as when they kick in doors to save old grannies, if they are carrying out a legitimate and legal task in good faith they aren't typically liable for damage/costs.

If the policy is valid, but was not showing up on the MIB list (which is what the police PNC systems tag into) I'd suggest you take it up with your insurers, as that is their responsibility.

I'm just mildly concerned by the fact your underwriters say you weren't insured - as they are the actual insurers (not the brokers) it could be that due to a SNAFU you actually WEREN'T insured.

[map]

[Mister James]

[JAMSXR]

I would say you don't need a solicitor when you go to court and contest this, unless there are some other factors you have not written about? I had a similar case a while back when dealing with an unreasonable copper. I simply explained what had happened to me and how the policeman had reacted and got found not guilty!

I know this chap was just doing his job, but I'm a strong believer that the Police (there are a few that do but it's pretty rare) should show leniency depending on the situation. Say I were to buy a bike with no tax and on my way to get it taxed was pulled and the policeman decides to size my bike, even if I were to pull out all the relevant documents and explain I was on rout to the post office - in this sort of case I think the police should show a reasonable degree of leniency.
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Honda SFX50 > Aprilia SR125 > Aprilia RS125 > Honda RFV400 > K4 GSXR600 > KTM Duke > C1H 636 > K3 GSXR1000 > Aprilia RSV-R > Triumph Street Triple R > Ducati 899 Panigale > Aprilia Tuono 1100 > Triumph Daytona 675R > KTM SuperDuke 1290 2.0

[Mister James]

Neither of those scenarios have any relevance here.

PNC/MIB show NO insurance. The underwriters show NO insurance. There is nothing to be lenient about - it's an absolute offence to be on the road without a policy of insurance in place.

The PC was reasonable in that he made other enquiries rather than just going on what his MDT said.

If there's found to be a mistake by the insurers, then they will have to provide compensation - not the police or the courts.

Vehicles get seized for not having insurance or the driver having no license, so your tax example is rather poor - and it's still an absolute offence that you have intentionally committed. Why should you expect 'leniency' for that?

[JAMSXR]

Having read the OP's post again, your right. The OP had no proof that he was insured and the policeman had no evidence telling him otherwise.

[mrtEE]

Just to clarify an essential point or 2, the vehicle itself was NOT coming up as uninsured.

When he checked MY insurance policy he stated that MY policy was not coming up on the system as allowing me to ride other peoples vehicles.

It was a bike copper, and he was a tosser. The reason for the stop was nothing to do with insurance, and was very spurious.

HE stopped me for accelerating fast from a set of lights. I wont go into details as its not relevant, but suffice to say he was an arse.

[Pernig]

What bike are you insured to ride? I've had a couple of policies (including my current one) that allow me to ride other bikes but it stipulates that the insured bike must be over 350cc. Maybe this is why the underwriters told the copper you weren't covered.
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H100 Breaking for spares

[Mister James]

[JAMSXR]

[Mister James]

[Pete.]

Perhaps he had someone at the station ring the underwriters and ask them 'Does this man have insurance specifically to ride this bike?'. That would come back as a 'no' because he isn't connected with the bike specifically, but is insured to ride 'any other etc' as many people are.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Devils Advocate]

[instigator]

FYI It can take up to 10 working days for your vehicle to be put onto the MID once you've taken out a policy. Get caught in this period, not having proof on you and being outside the brokers opening times, I'm guessing you're fucked. Which is a load of bollocks. Unless brokers are open 24/7? I doubt it somehow...

[Mister James]