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what oil to use?

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damz
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: what oil to use? Reply with quote
going to do an oil change on my zx7, first time i've done it with the bike and was wondering what oil to use? had everyone saying different things, iv'e been using silkoline semi senthetic oil on my rvf and fzr 250. so should i use semi or fully synthetic, arethere other choices?

also where are cheap places to get them?
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D O G
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheapest car oil you can get, as long as it has a decent friction rating it will be fine.

I used cheap 10w50 mineral oil in my bikes, never had a problem.

*Awaits flaming*
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and
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
...

Last edited by and on 15:19 - 24 Mar 2010; edited 1 time in total
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ncrn
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I used car engine oil once and it caused my clutch to slip a bit, the stuff they make it from is designed for car engines not for bikes.

Personally I use halfords bike oil, costs about £20 for 5 litres if I remember right, works well, engine is lubed Laughing.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Cheapest car oil you can get, as long as it has a decent friction rating it will be fine.

I used cheap 10w50 mineral oil in my bikes, never had a problem.

*Awaits flaming*


Cars generally run dry clutches and bikes generally run wet clutches and because of this the friction modifiers in car oil can make bike clutches slip. You also have to remember that cars have separate gearbox oil which has its own set of problems. The long chain shear protection in Bike oil is much greater than car oil due to the shearing forces in bike gearboxes which are never encountered in the car engine in isolation.

Basically, use quality bike oil, not car oil.
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bacon
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
ncrn wrote:
I used car engine oil once and it caused my clutch to slip a bit, the stuff they make it from is designed for car engines not for bikes.

Personally I use halfords bike oil, costs about £20 for 5 litres if I remember right, works well, engine is lubed Laughing.


i use semi synthetic 10w40 on my 7r, atm using castrol, was about £30 for a gallon (bit pricy), though to be honest id be inclined to use anything at the right price from silkolene, castrol etc

i actually got a HG email, they are offering gallon of oil and the filter thrown in for £20, if i was needing a change right now id go for that
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Kickstart
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
ulthar wrote:
Car oil will provide inadequet lubrication and protection for a motrocycle engine hence why there is motorcycle oil.


Far from it. Many bikes specify and old and obsolete oil standard (and bike specific oils are not are particularly old idea). The bigger problem is that some of the newest oil specs mandate friction modifiers that can cause problems with wet clutches

Autodata book just lists the ZX7R as requiring a 10W40 SG spec oil. SG is an obsolete spec which was used for normal car oils.

As to gearboxes, a few car makes just specify normal 10W40 for their car gearboxes (Honda from memory).

I use car oil in quite a few of the bikes (certainly the FZR600, 600 Bandit and the ZZR600 have it in at the moment) and never had it cause any clutch problems.

All the best

Keith
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D O G
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
ulthar wrote:
Car oil will provide inadequet lubrication and protection for a motrocycle engine hence why there is motorcycle oil.

10w-40 semi-synthetic oil is all you need for any bike.

For more information:

https://www.husqvarnaoutlet.com/the_true_difference_between_motorcycle_oil_and_automotive_oil

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Differences_Between_Car_and_Motorcycle_Oil.aspx


Aaah, two perfectly unbiased sources you've quoted there...clearly I'm wrong! Laughing
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and
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by and on 15:19 - 24 Mar 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Kickstart
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Don't think he is trying to make money from selling oil though.

Basically most bike makers (at least until fairly recently) specify a cheap generic 4 stroke oil. Your biggest problem is finding such a poor spec of car oil.

All the best

Keith
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and
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by and on 15:20 - 24 Mar 2010; edited 1 time in total
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Avoid any car oil marked as "Energy Conserving" and/or has the SJ rating. SJ specified friction modifiers that bugger wet clutches.

A firm biker favourite is Castrol GTX High Mileage. Its SL rated, but is guaranteed compatible with older SF-SG oils. I've used it in a few different bikes and they have all run fine on it. It actually cured a few oil leaks on my old Z550 as it apparently has an additive to restore nylon seals.......
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
ulthar wrote:
I'm not sure I follow. My understanding is that the car oils have friction modifiers to reduce friction in the engine. Motorcycle oils lack friction modifiers due to the problems which can arise with the clutch (and that they are not needed) because the motorcycle oils are lubricating not just the engine but also the clutch, valves and so on.


Only real difference is that the oils go in the clutch. Some cars use normal engine oil in the gearbox. All lube the valves, etc.

While there might be an argument that the grinding of the oil in the gearbox will give it a harder time, the converse is that motorcycle oils are changed far more often than car oils. Oil in most Japanese bikes seems to be changed at about 4000 miles. Most cars these days seem to change the oil at about 12000 miles (and some even less often).

ulthar wrote:
I had a look for the SG. According to API, it was introduced in 1989 and became obsolete when it was superceded by new specifications and was specified for engines from 1993 and older. The current specifications, SJ, SL and SM can be used in place of the obsolete specifications, so 10w-40 SM can be used in the ZX7R instead of 10w-40 SG. The specifications are just for petrol engines and there is no distinction made between car or motorcycle. SG refers to oxidation, wear and deposit limits. With the ZX7R using an older engine, it would retain the specifications, so I would imagine this to be the case with other bike engines and not having the updated specifications even though they can be used.


Quite. Could use an old car oil. In theory the new oils are compatable, but it seems that some of them do cause clutch problems (Magnetec for a start, and a few people have had problems with Texaco oils I think).

I am currently using a 10W40 Rock Oil synthetic car oil, SL spec.

ulthar wrote:
This is where things can get rediculous. Do you ignore someone who has knowledge on a subject because they are involved in it and listen to someone who has secondary information because they have no involvement in that subject?


To an extent I agree, but those 2 articles are basically advertising. They stand to gain from people spending far more for using bike specific oil.

The Husky one just appears wrong. They claim that motorcycle oils contain ZDDP to compensate for less friction modifiers. Car oils used to contain these, but newer oil specs limit their quantities as they wreck catalytic converters (so will probably be removed from bike oils pretty soon). One advantage of the el cheapo low grade oils is that they can still contain these additives.

The Mobil 1 page appears more useful. But it just mentions 2 issues. One is how long it lasts (bike oil is changed far more often so I would regard it as a non issue) and the other seems to be talking about helping the gearbox dogs to lock together, but then some cars use these normal engine oils in their gearboxes.

Incidently, 2 of the bikes currently using car oil have each done over 20K on the stuff, and both are renowned for weak dogs in the gearbox (FZR600 and ZZR600). Both have done over 50k, while gearbox problems often occur in then in far less (in about the time these have been using car oil, let along the miles they had done in advance). Yamaha specified SE grade oil, Kawasaki specified SE or SF.

All the best

Keith[/i]
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with Damofo. I use mineral oil in my bikes and then change the oil more frequently. Never had any issues.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

Quite. Could use an old car oil. In theory the new oils are compatable, but it seems that some of them do cause clutch problems (Magnetec for a start, and a few people have had problems with Texaco oils I think).


Halvoline Premium and Extra are ok but the energy (in the blue bottle) is a no no.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 26 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just go into esso or when ordering off wemoto just get whatever 10w-40 they have for sale for bikes.

Change every 5k miles or so on the 125.
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