Legal stuff, work related ( like reading? )

[bEN_]

If anyone could give me a heads up on what i can expect with my situation that would be winrar.

Basically, back in January at my last job i thought everything was going fine, went into work one morning, boss wanted to see me, which i thought was odd as i work next to him anyway in the same fecking room, meh.

he told me i was "taking the piss" and wasn't pulling my weight and that i had downloaded some random file
( which he didn't show me... because it's not true )

and within 5 minutes, told me to get my things and go. job done.

I worked there for just under 6 months, there was no written contract, i didn't sign shit and was paid on a salary basis, also i had never had any previous written warnings or anything.

my job was basically handle all the IT related shit, this involved graphic design, tech support, setting up and running an ebay shop with 100's of products + packaging the ebay items that were sold by myself, i also handled the phones if it was busy, i really enjoyed the job and i know i wasn't being lazy or taking the piss.

Anyway, i got over that and literally a week ago i was successful at a job interview at a school to be their 'junior ict technician'
they phoned me up, told me i could start monday and everything, then within 10 minutes, i get another phone call, they had to revoke the job offer from me, because my previous employer had given me a bad reference, they wouldn't tell me what exactly but just said he had written 'damning' things about me and they had to follow procedure meaning they weren't able to employ me, as they were telling me this the job was being offered to someone else. fuck.


I'm now going down the legal route, i have a letter i'm sending to the school to request the reference or a copy of it, then going to the CAB to see what i can do legally, basically with my situation what am i likely to get out of it?

They even told me the school that revoked the job from me could be liable, but i'm not interested in getting them in trouble unless i can get anything out of this, because of my cunt of a previous employer, i've lost a job and i'm in the shit financially which also affects the rest of the people i live with, it's especially shit today as it was supposed to be my first day there


So, what do? if anyone has had experience with this shit i'd be interested in knowing the best route to take to see if there's a hope in hell of getting some kind of compensation from the previous employer

i don't care if i didn't write this in proper paragraphs.
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[neil.]

I'm no expert on this at all but I didn't think it was legal to give a bad reference? Libel, or defamation, I think would be the terms, legally speaking? Go to CAB though to be sure and also work out if you are actually legally entitled to a copy of said 'reference'. Because you had no written contract of employment on your previous job, it might well have been that they just wanted to get rid of you quickly to avoid having to employ you properly and then being tied into redundancy etc should they wish to lose you after a long period of employment. Happens a lot, people are sacked after a few months of getting a job, before their probation ends. It's a bit of a loophole really.
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[Itchy]

It is a common misconception that a bad reference is illegal, this isn't true. Only a reference which is untrue is illegal.

Therefore if the reference is untrue you can effectively get him for the loss that you have suffered from this, i.e. not gotten the job.

Libel and slander laws are the preserve of the rich btw.

3 years ago I was bad referenced by a company in the middle of Manchester, I was re-interviewed and it didn't twig at the time. I went out drinking with the staff of the old firm and the secretary let slip that I'd been bad referenced.

However as I still got the job and kept it for 20 months I did not suffer material loss.

When I go work around these rubbish temp accounts jobs which last 2-4 weeks, I cover myself AT ALL times.

During the disciplinary even if it was an instant get sacked hearing you had the right to see evidence against you, he can't just say this and that.

Unfortunately we live in a world of small minded people who will bad reference people out of spite namely as 99% of the time people will not find out about it.

There is a company online that checks references for people btw, costs £60 (or just get a mate) for them to phone your old company up for a reference. They give a bad untrue reference, you have them by the balls.

My last major full time employer (I temp and run my own biz these days) did this he hated everybody and gave EVERYBODY bad references. Karma got him back as Neil was smart enough to find out where the dead bodies were buried while he was working there (he was pushed a month after me)

He prepared a nuclear bomb.

He tipped off HMRC and he is currently being investigated for a £7million fraud.

I am waiting for the court case for a bit of schadenfreude when he gets convicted (and its a when not IF as the evidence was comprehensive and damning) I want to go to the court and laugh at him. He was stupid anyway as Neil had nothing to lose, P the fraudster had an incredible amount to lose.
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[bEN_]

I'm quite keen to get my hands on it to see what has been written, i did nothing wrong while working there, so whatever has been written i can't see it being factual which like you said would make it illegal.

the CAB told me to go back to them once i have a copy of the reference so they can help me from there, but i can see it being one of those tedious processes, which i won't mind if i get something out of it.

Because of this, i lost a 15k a year job, but what realistically could i possibly be looking at getting given the scenario ?

thanks for your replies

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[Clanger]

Shame you didn't have a contract. Sorry I cannot be of any help, but you could go back to the people in question and offer an explaination in person...from your point of view. Ask if you can give them different referees.
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter won't mind - Dr. Seuss

[bEN_]

I tried everything i could think of, the day after i went into the school to see if anything could be done, but they had already filled the position, they were fine with me and said they would let me use them as a reference for the future aswell.

I'm just praying i can get something out of this, it's a bitch i have a brand new ducati to pay for
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[BenR]

I agree with Itchy there's no law against telling the truth so a "bad reference" is not illegal but it sounds like your old employer has fabricated his reference of you so you do have a case, bit difficult to prove anything mind as you had no contract of employment so it's your word against his I'm afraid. Are you sure you didn't do anything to upset him? You may find the threat of legal action may make him more affable.
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[Itchy]

[bEN_]

Thanks,

luckily, the guy is a total cunt, has next to no friends and i know alot of people who dislike him for various reasons but it's getting the legal bods to realise that and not favor him.

I was thinking about letting him know how pissed off i am and what i intend on doing, but i can't see any gain in doing so what so ever?
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[Itchy]

[MarJay]

[Robby]

[bEN_]

Well i posted the letter earlier requesting the reference, i also put in another page which basically stated on it that they are not breaking any data protection act in doing so, i'm more interested to see if what was written wasn't 'that bad' which would turn the tables somewhat.


right, back to trawling the net for another job.
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[Barry_M2]

What it their ebay user name, I'm sure a few of us could 'buy' their items? Or even better, do you know what the password is to log in as them?


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[Itchy]

[stinkwheel]

You could always try taking boss #1 to a tribunal for wrongful dismissal.

The absence of a written contract makes it almost impossable to legally sack you. He would have to have shown that a) You did whatever it is he said you did. AND (importantly) b) That this was contrary to your terms and conditions of employment and constituted gross misconduct (the only reason they can instantly dismiss you).

Normal practice is to have an employee handbook detailing their grievance procedures which has to have been made available to you and referenced in your contract. If they don't have this, they will almost certainly loose an employment tribunal.

If they lost such a tribunal. You could well be awarded compensation totalling the loss of earnings in the period since you were dismissed and the loss of future earnings resulting from your dismissal.

The Citizens Advice Beaureau would be a good starting point.
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[Ste]

What was the file that you allegedly downloaded?

[bEN_]

Thanks,

As for the ebay shop i setup for him, i hosted alot of the images in a photobucket account, i'm deleting 1 a week, the first one i did was the main logo which appears on every ebay ad, it would only take someone who knows what they are doing about an hour to replace them all. but meh.

What i'm planning on doing is nailing him with a tribunal and for the bad reference in one go, if possible.

even his tattooist who has worked there for over a year, has still not signed any type of contract!

You are right about references when it comes to companies Itchy, one of the other references the school recieved was from 'the tech guys' or DSGI, all they put was the dates i started and finished

Do these kind of things end up with myself and my previous employer going to court, or is it handled like those injury claims where some suits basically do the legwork on the no win / no fee basis, which is another thing i havn't asked yet, is this going to cost me anything?
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[bEN_]

[Kickstart]

[bEN_]

hmm i suppose your right, it'd look petty if i kept doing it and it got back to me, i've only done one so i'll leave it at that.

I've also been told it's 3 months or so to get things going so hopefully after i recieve the reference back this will get the ball rolling. if not then i'm running out of options unless i handle both of the issues i'm having separately.
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[Kickstart]

Hi

The dodgy reference and the unfair dismissal are 2 different things. Don't wait on the reference before speaking to the CAB about the unfair dismissal (for a start it might well take quite a while for them to decide if they need to supply the reference under the DPA, and they might have disposed of it anyway).

All the best

Keith
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[MarJay]

[bEN_]

Thanks Keith,

The first time i went to CAB the person i spoke to told me to go back once i recieved the reference but i might pop down again today and just see what needs to be done about the unfair dismissal
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[bEN_]