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Theory-Test; First aid?!

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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 01:31 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Theory-Test; First aid?! Reply with quote
Snowie is sat next to me working through her Theory Test Course DVD, because her CBT certs about to run out......
But geez! When i did my tests many many years ago, limit of driver theory was what the stopping distances were at different speeds, what driving with an under inflated tyre would do, and what the different signs meant.
This thing is asking her questions like, how many compressions per minute you would give some-one who had stopped breathing, and how far you should push! And there's LOADS of them!
I thought it was a bludy driving test, not a fucking medical exam!
And then there's driver attitude!
BOY am I glad I passed my tests a LONG time ago!
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 02:20 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm all for the first aid questions. Most of them are simple simon "pour water on burns" sort of thing.

There's a good question in there about not removing a motorcyclist's helmet in a crash.

The theory test is easy. I got 50/50 for both car and bike theory tests just by going through the book. It taught me a lot about the road that I didn't know while on my CBT.

Let Snowie know that a disabled persons cart thing has a top speed of 8mph. Laughing

It's one of those "WTF" questions.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:23 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
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"Why is this vehicle good for the environment?"

I nearly had an Episode when that question came up.
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fiveus
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is the maximum width of trailer you can tow behind a motorcycle


ans = 575mm
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Erm, are you sure? Pretty sure it's 1m; a few sites from google confirm that. Didn't think that'd changed recently; that's pretty narrow.
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Pernig
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
david_m213 wrote:
There's a good question in there about not removing a motorcyclist's helmet in a crash.


I was taught you should remove it when I did a first aid course last year.
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pernig wrote:
david_m213 wrote:
There's a good question in there about not removing a motorcyclist's helmet in a crash.


I was taught you should remove it when I did a first aid course last year.


Not unless the person isn't breathing, and it's aimed towards the spakkas that don't have any training and are "just trying to help".

Was it a first aid course specifically for motorcyclists?

When I did my last first aid course with St. Andrews I was pretty impressed that they mentioned the whole helmet thing and that you shouldn't remove it as you can cause a lot of damage.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 15:08 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did an 'appointed person' course and they did the whole 'how to take a helmet off' procedure. However, the CEO's sun who was a racing driver was there and think he needed to know because he was doing it so he could be a racing driving tutor.
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Pernig
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
david_m213 wrote:
Not unless the person isn't breathing, and it's aimed towards the spakkas that don't have any training and are "just trying to help".


I appreciate this but there is no worse condition than lack of breathing. If you aren't breathing you are dead in five minutes, that's that.

david_m213 wrote:
Was it a first aid course specifically for motorcyclists?


Of course it wasn't. Motorcyclists are such a small minority I can't see a 'specifically' for motorcyclists' first aid course being very feasible at all.
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The999Kid
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pernig wrote:


david_m213 wrote:
Was it a first aid course specifically for motorcyclists?


Of course it wasn't. Motorcyclists are such a small minority I can't see a 'specifically' for motorcyclists' first aid course being very feasible at all.


London ambulance service motorcycle response riders run one bi annually including how to use your bike as a fend off, correct helmet removal procedure and use of basic stuff to keep people together.
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The999Kid
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
david_m213 wrote:


Not unless the person isn't breathing, and it's aimed towards the spakkas that don't have any training and are "just trying to help".

Was it a first aid course specifically for motorcyclists?

When I did my last first aid course with St. Andrews I was pretty impressed that they mentioned the whole helmet thing and that you shouldn't remove it as you can cause a lot of damage.


if they arent breathing theyre as good as dead... you cant make them any worse than dead. end of.

and St john/St Andrew teach a blanket Non removal policy to everyone barring their paramedics.
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
fiveus wrote:
What is the maximum width of trailer you can tow behind a motorcycle


ans = 575mm


It is a metre, mine was 112cm Cool
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
david_m213 wrote:
Pernig wrote:


I was taught you should remove it when I did a first aid course last year.


Not unless the person isn't breathing, and it's aimed towards the spakkas that don't have any training and are "just trying to help".

Was it a first aid course specifically for motorcyclists?

When I did my last first aid course with St. Andrews I was pretty impressed that they mentioned the whole helmet thing and that you shouldn't remove it as you can cause a lot of damage.


To be clear. Read what I said again.

Pernig: "I was taught you should remove it".

It says "not UNLESS the person isn't breathing".

That means that you DO NOT remove the helmet unless they are breathing.

I'd appreciate it if people actually read my post properly. Wink

Also, I didn't go into the helmet removal thing too much in terms of exactly what was said at the first aid course. They said the same thing. If they aren't breathing then you need to remove the helmet. They even went into detail about non mist visors etc.

I NEVER said it was a rule never to remove a helmet. I always said from the beginning to only remove it if the person is not breathing.
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Pernig
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
david_m213 wrote:
david_m213 wrote:
Not unless the person isn't breathing, and it's aimed towards the spakkas that don't have any training and are "just trying to help".

Was it a first aid course specifically for motorcyclists?

When I did my last first aid course with St. Andrews I was pretty impressed that they mentioned the whole helmet thing and that you shouldn't remove it as you can cause a lot of damage.


To be clear. Read what I said again.

Pernig: "I was taught you should remove it".

It says "not UNLESS the person isn't breathing".

That means that you DO NOT remove the helmet unless they are breathing.

I'd appreciate it if people actually read my post properly. Wink

Also, I didn't go into the helmet removal thing too much in terms of exactly what was said at the first aid course. They said the same thing. If they aren't breathing then you need to remove the helmet. They even went into detail about non mist visors etc.

I NEVER said it was a rule never to remove a helmet. I always said from the beginning to only remove it if the person is not breathing.


To be fair your first and second posts were a little ambiguous and this one is even more confusing.
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Gazz
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Re: Theory-Test; First aid?! Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:
BOY am I glad I passed my tests a LONG time ago!


Me too.

I am also led to believe that in your car test now, you need to be able to show the examiner the dipstick, expansion tank, etc if he asks to see it.

Fairly easy for most, but you know what girls are like.
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pernig wrote:
To be fair your first and second posts were a little ambiguous and this one is even more confusing.


To simplify my opinion:

Breathing = leave helmet on until trained medics arrive.
Not Breathing = Get the helmet off and attempt resucitation until trained medics arrive.

The big issue is whether or not the average person knows how to check (or even bothers to consider to check if the person is breathing) and goes in pulling the helmet off and just pretty much guessing. The theory question is good because the people that learn it will know that helmet removal is clearly something that can cause damage and isn't something that should be done straight away without assessing the riders condition.

There are also quite a few first aid courses specifically for bikers. I know of a couple that are run in Scotland so it's not exactly stupid and I'm sure there's more in the UK. It covers things like helmet removal and likely situations you may have to deal with if someone you're riding with has crashed.

The question is aimed at people who have no training and it is to avoid UNTRAINED people from causing more damage to an injured rider. If someone knows what they're doing then I'd be happy for them to remove my helmet. If I'm not breathing then I'd want anyone to have a bash at it. The problem is whether or not the have a go medic can really tell I'm not breathing is the big issue.

My issue with your initial post was that it said "we were taught to remove it" but it you didn't specify anything about what sort of condition the injured rider is in when you'd remove it.
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The999Kid
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
david_m213 wrote:


The big issue is whether or not the average person knows how to check (or even bothers to consider to check if the person is breathing)


to clarify for the good of people on here:

Ways to tell a rider is breathing:
  • a normal visor will mist up in cold weather when the rider exhales
  • there will be some degree of movement from the chest/stomach wiith normal breath... place a hand gently on the chest if unsure
  • open the visor and place your ear about an inch from the riders mouth, you will hear breath noise and/or feel breath on your cheek


all possible without removing the helmet, if the rider wears a flip front lid then even better, flip it up and get a decent check done!
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Re: Theory-Test; First aid?! Reply with quote
Gazz wrote:
Teflon-Mike wrote:
BOY am I glad I passed my tests a LONG time ago!

Me too.
I am also led to believe that in your car test now, you need to be able to show the examiner the dipstick, expansion tank, etc if he asks to see it.
Fairly easy for most, but you know what girls are like.

What do you mean what 'girls' are like?!?!?
I drive a Honda Civic.... does it HAVE a dip-stick?
I didn't lift the bonnet on it for six months, and only then to give a jump-start to my Rangie!
Drove it for a year before I had to hunt for the windscreen washer bottle!
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Nixon
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Once again the first aid discussions on this forum seriously scares me!

Anyone who has done a first aid course will hopefully remember

D R A B C

A = Airway which comes before B = Breathing

Motorbike helmets are big and heavy and often too big for the rider's head, the weight of them will pull the head forward which is likely to block the airway resulting in no breathing. Something as simple as tilting the head backwards and lifting the chin upwards could be all that is needed to open a blocked airway and allow someone to breath.

.... failing that if the airway is opened and there still not breathing that is when you will begin considering taking off the lid if the situation calls for it.

But of course both of these involve moving the head, which is what we need to avoid in order to protect the spine!

Interestingly enough The Resus Council are now not recommending mouth to mouth for "bystander first aiders" as chest compressions are what will (According to their research) save lives!
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
My Dad's a Doctor, my mother a Biology Teacher....
I became an engineer.. I don't 'do' blood!
First aid? - if they need more than a sticking plaster, its beyond me, dial 999! If it only needs a sticking plaster, then they don't need my help!
ANYWAY... she's at it again this evening; now here's a novel thought, WHY has it just asked her what should a provisional motorcycle licence holder NOT have on their motorcycle?
She's doing the test so she gets a FULL licence..... with a full licence, why does it matter?!?
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