Upgrade NS125 disks to NSR

malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Hi
Has anyone upgraded the NS125 rear or front brakes to those of an NSR125?

The back one needs to be fitted on a new swinging arm but I am told that the measurements of the NSR and NS swing arms are the same in terms of width and where the rear suspension fits so the swap should be possible. I will have to fabricate a master cyclinder bracket... Has anyone got a picture of how the NSR master cylinder and brake pedal are fitted? Help"!

Not yet checked the measurement on the fron, may need NSR forks?

Can anyone advise?

Thanks and have agreat Xmas..

Malc
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Malc
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McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

Would it not be easier to just trade it in for an NSR?
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malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Yep, probably but it is an engineering challenge Smile

Looks like the front disk caliper and fork bottom is the same as I have a caliper off an NSR and the one off the NS... The NSR disk is larger a sfar as I can see in the pictures so not sure how that will fit into the old caliper..

Any pictures of the front or rear caiper and foot controls would be useful.. can you help?

Cheers
Karma

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Malc
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Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

I'd suggest getting hold of one, as that way you can do some accurate measuring of each. Sounds like an interesting idea, would be interesting if it works. The NS125 brakes aren't that bad though are they?

Danny · Ask Me About Stoppie School Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Karma :

I've found the NSR brakes 'interesting'. Embarassed

Major_Grooves · The Doctor Joined: 10 May 2002 Karma :

NSR125-Kid-UK · Attention Whore Joined: 03 May 2003 Karma :

OT?? Where did THAT come from mate? Laughing

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Robby · Dirty Old Man Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :

The brakes on my old NS were fine, lost a bit of bit when the fork seals blew and they got covered in oil, but thats understandable.

malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Hi,
thanks for comments... I find the rear NS brakes pretty cr*p. Front aren't too bad but thought that the larger disk may improve them a little more. Just don't understand the relationship of a larger disk on the same calipers... I need to fins a local NSR and do some measuring!!!

I'll post on this trhread as I make progress. So far I have the NSR calipers for front and back along with the master cylinders. The front is identical to the NS, but the NS drum is obviously not suitable for the NSR disk Laughing

Maybe I can find an NSR front wheel with disk or cpuld someone with an NSR measure the disk diameter for me???

More as I progress.#
Cheers
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Malc
In search of ns125 Bits Smile

Kickstart@Work · Scooby Slapper Joined: 26 Sep 2003 Karma :

Hi

With a larger disk the caliper would need to be mounted further up the fork leg. This would require either some very accurate welding and machining, or swapping the fork legs (as they use different fork seals it seems almost certain that the fork legs are different enough so that you cannot just swap over the lower). This may also require the yokes as well. The other way to do it would be to get a bracket made up to space the caliper out further.

For the rear you would probably need to swap over the complete swinging arm with the wheel. Not sure whether the rising rate linkages are the same.

At the end of the day you would land up with a disk on the back (errr, wow, a drum on the back is hardly that bad as it doesn't have much to do) and a larger disk on the front (so better cooling and the brake pads have more leverage on the disk, and the disk passes over the pads quicker turning more movement into heat). Personally I would say just sort out the front brake properly with (possibly) new seals and some decent pads. The NS brakes should be reasonably good and more than able to lock up the front wheel.

By the way I had been contemplating upgrading the brakes on my old FZ750. In the end some new disks turned up cheap so I fitted those with EBC HH pads. The brakes are now VERY good (far better than the GPZ500 or the XJ600) without any great expense. OK the EBC HH pads are not available for the NS / NSR but some other company might make some decent pads.

All the best

Keith
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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

I got EBC Greenstuff pads, braided hoses, new fork seals and a bit of effort to fit the lot and my NS125R brakes were transformed. I could lock the front wheel at will and even do some piddly little stoppies. Don't mess around with fitting brakes from other bikes, it might just make things worse! Smile

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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Thanks for all the input and advice... I will only upgrade to rear disk if I pick up a cheap swinging arm. The breaker yeard emasured them and a swap should be easy enough.

The NSR calipers are identical to the NS ones so they must be positioned higher on the forks, so will probably just use the newer calipers and keep the front brakes as they are. Replace the pads and maybe hoses as you have suggested.. goo point... as I do have a spare set of NS forks and yokes so not really keen to buy another set!!

My issue with the rear brake is probably down to my other bike/s have/had rear disks so I find the NS a bit weak when a bit of rear braking is needed. Mind you as the weight is so low, the front should suffive unless its icey or going round a corner Embarassed

Great forum, sensible advice...

Cheers
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Malc
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Scotty · Scooter Boi Joined: 31 Jul 2002 Karma :

Definetly an interesting post.
But if braking is that bad, maybe just changing the fluid, pads, and maybe even trying to get some braided front hose's are a better soloution.
If you really wanted to go mad you could change your brake calipers and a master cylinder. but i would imagine the easiest, cheapest fix's are probably the hose's and fluid.

I have brake disc's / wheels / pads lying about if you want me to take some measurements.
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Regards
Scott

malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Hi Scotty
Yes please, some measurements of the NSR bits would be very helpful.

On the front brakes, I would like to know the diameter of the front disk and the height of the lugs holding the ca;iper. Based on the NSR caliper I have, I know that the physical caliper is the same, so I am guessing that the height of the lugs is greater to allow for what I think is a bigger disk.

If we could start with that, I will photograph the section and overlay some measurements on if I need more detail... Then I'll ponder the rear section.

Thanks for the offer of help..

Cheers
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Malc
In search of ns125 Bits Smile

Scotty · Scooter Boi Joined: 31 Jul 2002 Karma :

Allow me a day or two to do this, as i'll have to wonder down the garage and get the disc's.

i'll try get some good measurements on ths disc's.
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Regards
Scott

Syfoon · TRUCK!!! Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Karma :

malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Thanks Scotty... much appreciated....

Hi Syfoon, That was my feeling about the NS rear end... brakes? Mind you may be my 14 stone that makes 'em work too hard.. Confused

I'll keep my progress on this list...

cheers
Malc
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Malc
In search of ns125 Bits Smile

Scotty · Scooter Boi Joined: 31 Jul 2002 Karma :

I use the rear brake all the time.
At one stage i used to use it alot more than the front.

But i definetly use it alot more over winter than the front brake.
That and using engine braking, which isn't exactly much from a 2 stroke. but does help a little.
Much better than rolling and braking... the bike just doesn't feel right when i do that...
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Regards
Scott

P_J · Nearly there... Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Karma :

Sorry about not replying to that email, Malc. Just checked excite today. Looks like you are getting the info you need though. Smile

I do have a digital camera but it is not that great. Maybe you get hold of one and post before during and after pictures of the project in hand. Smile

PJ
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G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

Right, if you're doing this for the challenge, fair enough, though I can think of a lot more interesting things to do (not that I /do/ do them, so shan't criticise Smile

)

If your rear brake won't lock the back wheel then give it a service, it should be able to easily enough. Being able to do more than lock the rear wheel is a little useless and possibly counter productive. You're going to need a new wheel to accommodate the disk, which will through the relative sizes between the wheels out, so you'd also need a new front. Also there may be problems with chain alignment etc. Neverminding all the probs you'd have with a new swing arm.

The NS125 was the first bike I ever stoppied (though only to a stop, not rolling Embarassed

), so the brakes can be good. A decent clean and thorough service should sort them out.
A new wheel would probably mean a new rear, as well as various other bits and hassle. It'd probably be easier just to stick NSR forks in while you're at it.

If you really do want better stopping power, a much neater solution would be to make or get made up a bracket to use some better brakes; a bloke on the rd forum is offering a pair of brackets to allow me to use my spare Tokico 6 pots on my rd for £90 (also takes Tokico 4 pots).
While it may not be as interesting a solution, it'd leave you time to work on something more genuinely useful: have a search on here for the link to the home made NOS kits Very Happy

.

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

I have a spare swingarm from the older model (RK) NSR. And both brake systems, apart from discs. PM me if you're interested.
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Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

I found these front pads to be very good on the front of my NS125R-K when I had it. It was very very powerful once I put these pads in, so I started to learn to use the back more as I did not want to be thrown over the bars !

Pads made by Nissin
Part number 2P224 (2P-224)

Cost me about £4.00 - £5.00 I think.

The rear drum / brake, it's an art to get the adjustment right for this for stopping the bike. I used the rear brake more than I did the front, it takes practice to use it and stop the bike without locking the wheel, even in the wet. Learn to get the feel of it and soon you will be able to judge how much pressure to place on the pedal to stop the bike without locking up the wheel.

stevo as b4 · World Chat Champion Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :

If you can get them then all you should need on the NS is an EBC disk, Sintered HH pads, and braided steel line, and re-build/service your caliper. If you want you could also try fitting a slightly bigger master cylinder from a bike like a GPZ500, or something, and that would increase the effort applied to the caliper. Im probably going to go along the same lines when i come to uprating the brake on my KMX200, though i havent decided if i should try a bigger disk with the std caliper, or just fit the whole disc/caliper/Master cyl from a KLR650 to my fork leg and hub.

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

Ermm, I know it's on a lighter bike, but I was never at all impressed by the klr650's brakes.
THey coulda done with a service, which they never got.
However the first time I got on it, after my mum had been using it and I had been on the NSR, I actually thought the front brake had failed it was that weak.

General thought with breaking:
Optimum breaking is always at the point the rear wheel is about to lift, thus using the rear brake for optimum breaking will always be useless on a sportsy bike (may be more use on a cruiser/ped). At the best point of breaking it's just going to lock the wheel up.
Even in the wet with not too grippy tyres, it's usually best to just use engine braking: at least this means the tyre still keeps spinning if it does lose traction, which helps keep the bike upright.

malc · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Karma :

Hi all,
Once again some very sensible comments....

It seems like the front disk will work well with the right pads and a clean caliper. So, plan is to fit the relatively new NSR caliper which is identical to my old NS caliper, just in better condition.. Very Happy

On the rear, I will have another go at improving the drum performance by doing a service.. does anyone know where i can get the shoes or get them rebonded at a reasonable price?

As a project of interest, I will try and get a cheap swinging arm, disk and rear wheel and see if I can upgrade the rear to a disk brake. I know this is not an economical or maybe good use of time in terms of performance but then I enjoy the challenge. I have access to a lathe and milling machine, welder and some other tools so should be able to make up any little things I need..

Is the rear wheel on the NSR the same size (18 inch) as the NS? What size tyre does it have? The NS has a 3.50 by 18..

Thanks again for all your help.

About to search for those Nissin pads..

Cheers
Malc
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Malc
In search of ns125 Bits Smile