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Bury the Ninja?

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killa
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Bury the Ninja? Reply with quote

So the Ninja dropped a valve (80% sure of this from some investigations) The engine won’t even turn over now.
I’m a stumped as to what I want to do with it. Looking on Ebay etc I can see I could get an engine for around £3-400. Obviously this is cheaper than trying to get another bike but I’d be putting a second hand engine in my second hand bike. This would also be cheaper, I imagine, than spending lots of money on trying to repair what I have (I have seen damaged pistons down bore)
Before all this bolIox happened I was going to do the repairs to the fairings as the front and side right, have some damage which lets the rest of the bike down IMO.
Now this is out of the question, do I really want to get the bike back on the road in that sort of condition?
My other option is to sell and to save, I’d need around £2-2500 for my ideal bike as you can imagine my Ninja as it is probably isn’t worth more than a grand. Thinking
Bad timing has resulted in me not having £3-400 to throw at the bike so I’m left thinking “Sell the bike, save what I can for another??”
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Re: Bury the Ninja? Reply with quote

killa wrote:
Obviously this is cheaper than trying to get another bike but I’d be putting a second hand engine in my second hand bike.


Tut Tut
We talked a bout this.....

How is that any different to riding a used bike?

Man up, get a new engine, check it, service it, fit it.
Proper Job!
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, try and find a diff lump. Maybe a more modern, larger lump and bosh that in.
you have everything there but a lump. Why stick to a straight replacement?
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Re: Bury the Ninja? Reply with quote

Every second hand bike has a second hand engine Thumbs Up .


How much do the zx-9r lumps go for, a conversion would make the engine damage seem worthwhile and it the swap seems relatively simple?

Fix it and flog it or fix it and keep it.


Flogging it as it is will fetch you feck all, they can be had for less than £1300 in good nick.


Last edited by DrDonnyBrago on 14:57 - 30 Mar 2011; edited 1 time in total
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know if it's dropped a valve?

My KTM won't start at all now, the starter just turns over but it won't fire up. It happened whilst I was riding it down the road at about 30mph then it just cut out like the killswitch had been flicked.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recoil Jay wrote:
How do you know if it's dropped a valve?

My KTM won't start at all now, the starter just turns over but it won't fire up. It happened whilst I was riding it down the road at about 30mph then it just cut out like the killswitch had been flicked.


If it cut out with a crunch and a bang like your engine had swallowed a hammer it would suggest a valve had been dropped, yours seems more civilised so would think electrical or fuel Thumbs Up .
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would open it up and check for damage, if the bored are OK I would do a top end rebuild. Probably cost the same in parts as a second hand engine, but a much better option IMO.
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0ddball
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 9r lump sounds like more messing that you're prepared to accept (fitting is easy, getting it running right is sometimes a bit more work). But you will get a good 20k 7r lump for £200, don't take any notice of ebay/breakers inflated prices for untested crap.

As suggested before, if you haven't already, register on redmonkey and ask. There are some guys on there who have 3 or 4 engines in their garage sitting doing nothing. You're more likely to get a good one and maybe even a hand fitting it if someone lives close.
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killa
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input guys, some good points there…and Cansa, yes mate sorry, I just need to get this straight in my head.
I think I’ll go for the second hand lump and then sell her when it’s in.

I’ll sign up to red monkey today Thumbs Up
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

killa wrote:
Thanks for all the input guys, some good points there…and Cansa, yes mate sorry, I just need to get this straight in my head.
I think I’ll go for the second hand lump and then sell her when it’s in.

I’ll sign up to red monkey today Thumbs Up


No. ZX9R engine. Simples.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

killa wrote:
I just need to get my head out my ass

Fixed Wink

Killa about 20mins ago.
https://media.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/image/head-up-ass.jpg

also, get a 9 in there and you wont want to sell it......
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:

If it cut out with a crunch and a bang like your engine had swallowed a hammer it would suggest a valve had been dropped, yours seems more civilised so would think electrical or fuel Thumbs Up .


There was a slight 'clunk' noise but it didn't feel violent or anything, just carried on free wheeling until I pulled over and stopped. It's done it before last year, went back under warranty and they replaced the rocker arm and rocker cover?
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killa
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
killa wrote:
I just need to get my head out my ass

Fixed Wink


I need you around more often Shifty
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0ddball
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

killa wrote:


I’ll sign up to red monkey today Thumbs Up


Don't forget to fill in your profile or they'll rip you to shreds lol.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
I would open it up and check for damage, if the bored are OK I would do a top end rebuild. Probably cost the same in parts as a second hand engine, but a much better option IMO.


Why would it matter if the bores were ok ? If you do a top end rebuild you'd get rid of them anyways. Otherwise youd just be doing a piston change wouldn't you ?
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killa
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

0ddball wrote:
killa wrote:


I’ll sign up to red monkey today Thumbs Up


Don't forget to fill in your profile or they'll rip you to shreds lol.


Thanks Razz Thumbs Up
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0ddball
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:
chris-red wrote:
I would open it up and check for damage, if the bored are OK I would do a top end rebuild. Probably cost the same in parts as a second hand engine, but a much better option IMO.


Why would it matter if the bores were ok ? If you do a top end rebuild you'd get rid of them anyways. Otherwise youd just be doing a piston change wouldn't you ?


Top end means cylinder head and upwards.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 17:28 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:
chris-red wrote:
I would open it up and check for damage, if the bored are OK I would do a top end rebuild. Probably cost the same in parts as a second hand engine, but a much better option IMO.


Why would it matter if the bores were ok ? If you do a top end rebuild you'd get rid of them anyways. Otherwise youd just be doing a piston change wouldn't you ?


No you wouldn't.

You wouldn't even change the pistons unless they where damaged (likely in the cylinder with the dropped valve) or worn, doubtful in a 4t.

You would change the rings and get the head sorted out, making sure all the valves are with spec etc.

Doing a topend rebuild on a 2t will often just consist of replacing the piston rings.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
No you wouldn't.

You wouldn't even change the pistons unless they where damaged (likely in the cylinder with the dropped valve) or worn, doubtful in a 4t.

You would change the rings and get the head sorted out, making sure all the valves are with spec etc..


Fair enough, I was getting carried away with myself and assuming the bore would be fucked in the cylinder the valve dropped in... In my experience the vavle hitting the piston totals everything in that cylinder. I would say what you described would be a top end overhaul or service not a 'rebuild' but agree to differ on that.

chris-red wrote:
Doing a topend rebuild on a 2t will often just consist of replacing the piston rings


That on the other hand really is stretching 'rebuild' . In my view top end rebuild would involve, pot, piston, gudgeon pin and gaskets.

Changing the rings, is just that.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 20:05 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:
chris-red wrote:
No you wouldn't.

You wouldn't even change the pistons unless they where damaged (likely in the cylinder with the dropped valve) or worn, doubtful in a 4t.

You would change the rings and get the head sorted out, making sure all the valves are with spec etc..


Fair enough, I was getting carried away with myself and assuming the bore would be fucked in the cylinder the valve dropped in... In my experience the vavle hitting the piston totals everything in that cylinder. I would say what you described would be a top end overhaul or service not a 'rebuild' but agree to differ on that.

chris-red wrote:
Doing a topend rebuild on a 2t will often just consist of replacing the piston rings


That on the other hand really is stretching 'rebuild' . In my view top end rebuild would involve, pot, piston, gudgeon pin and gaskets.

Changing the rings, is just that.


Gaskets are a given, but why should a top end rebuild included replacing the barrel. They aren't generally supposed to be consumables

I think in a top end rebuild you take it apart and replace what needs replacing. if the piston is within spec, don't replace it.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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bacon
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Re: Bury the Ninja? Reply with quote

https://homepage.ntlworld.com/webzxr/zxr750r/Features/skydork.html

Twisted Evil

though the brg kit is rather expensive, it seems to make the conversion pretty simple...i know, not the most economic solution, prob best to just grab a 7r lump
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recoil Jay wrote:
There was a slight 'clunk' noise but it didn't feel violent or anything, just carried on free wheeling until I pulled over and stopped. It's done it before last year, went back under warranty and they replaced the rocker arm and rocker cover?


Basically the valve for whatever reason hits the piston, bending the stem and/or snapping off the head. If the head snaps off then it bounces around violently until it gets hammered into the piston and cylinder head.

Neither scenario would be exceptionally quiet so a light clunk is very unlikely to be a dropped valve. There are a multitude of less disastrous things it could be so stick up a new thread in workshop with your symptoms, history, pics etc etc to catch the attention of the mechanically minded crowd and get some advice Thumbs Up .
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 30 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine you could squeeze a 'Busa engine in there, probably a turbo too...

Wink.
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