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Mellow Matt
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Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Brake Judder Reply with quote
My TLR's front brake judders a fair amount, and it's particularly noticeable at low speeds where the brakes will be on then off repeatedly if the lever is held in slightly at a walking pace.

I swapped the discs over with some I got 2nd hand and tested it out and the judder had gone, but now it seems to have come back again after 100miles or so Sad

I haven't been braking hard at all, and haven't abused the discs/pads. As far as I'm aware it can only really be the discs or bearings (I know nothing about bearings though!) causing it, but I don't really know how to tell (especially since I don't have too many tools, and can't really get the front wheel off the ground!).

I've just taken the calipers apart to have a check - the pistons all move fairly freely, although when squeezing the brake one piston seems to come out first (I don't think that matters though). The pads are fairly evenly worn and nothing looks awry with them.

Does anyone have any ideas what it would be or how to stop it?

Thanks!
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jimbothe
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi there, just a thought but have you checked the head stock bearings? This can cause judder under braking as well.
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Mellow Matt
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
1samarg wrote:
Hi there, just a thought but have you checked the head stock bearings? This can cause judder under braking as well.


I haven't tried that, no, how would I do that?

Thanks!
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
1Samarg, I was just thinking that as well. worn steering bearings caused judder on my NS125F
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jimbothe
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I haven't tried that, no, how would I do that?


Depends on your approach to it. You can try holding the front brake firm while sitting on the bike and forcefully rocking the bike forwards and backwards and keep a eye on the top nut to see if there is any movement.

If you have the means to raise the front end off the ground then it's relatively easy to rock the forks back and forth and get someone to check for any movement.
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Mellow Matt
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Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
1samarg wrote:
Quote:
I haven't tried that, no, how would I do that?


Depends on your approach to it. You can try holding the front brake firm while sitting on the bike and forcefully rocking the bike forwards and backwards and keep a eye on the top nut to see if there is any movement.

If you have the means to raise the front end off the ground then it's relatively easy to rock the forks back and forth and get someone to check for any movement.


I don't have a way to get the front end off the ground at the moment, so I tried the rocking the bike method - it doesn't look like the top nut is moving, but it's not that easy to tell. Would it be moving a fairly noticeable amount, or would a little bit of movement result in the juddery brakes?

Thanks
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jimbothe
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Would it be moving a fairly noticeable amount, or would a little bit of movement result in the juddery brakes?


A tiny movement up top could cause a larger movement at the bottom. You may not even see any movement but it could still be there. I had a similar problem a while back and just pinched up the nut and it improved it. I changed the bearings a week later though just to be sure and all judder ceased.

You say you have swapped the discs round and it went back to the same as before and you have checked the pistons and calipers and pads. If all is good as you say it is then bearings are pretty much all thats left.

How are the fork stanchions and seals?

Just looked at your profile, you're not exactly next door but you're not a million miles away either. If you can get yourself down Suffolk way I'm happy to help you and I have all the tools and stands we could ever need. Thumbs Up
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Mellow Matt
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 20 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
1samarg wrote:
Quote:
Would it be moving a fairly noticeable amount, or would a little bit of movement result in the juddery brakes?


A tiny movement up top could cause a larger movement at the bottom. You may not even see any movement but it could still be there. I had a similar problem a while back and just pinched up the nut and it improved it. I changed the bearings a week later though just to be sure and all judder ceased.

You say you have swapped the discs round and it went back to the same as before and you have checked the pistons and calipers and pads. If all is good as you say it is then bearings are pretty much all thats left.

How are the fork stanchions and seals?

Just looked at your profile, you're not exactly next door but you're not a million miles away either. If you can get yourself down Suffolk way I'm happy to help you and I have all the tools and stands we could ever need. Thumbs Up


Thanks a lot for the offer Thumbs Up Very nice of you!

I think what I'm going to do is borrow a mate's Abba stand and then check it over with my dad (he's much more of a mechanic than me!), so I shan't need to come and take up your time, ta anyway though Smile

The stanchions and the seals look ok to me, but I'll get my dad to cast his expert eye on them too!

Cheers Karma
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 21 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try cleaning the discs with some brake cleaner. I found this helped with brake judder on my CBR. I was in the same situation as you. Swapped the discs, it went away only to soon return. When the pads / discs get warm, some of the brake pad material can transfer onto the discs. If this transfer is uneven you can get this juddering.

I found that if I cleaned the discs, it would go away for a short while. The thing is, it doesn't always do it. Sometimes you'll stop and it'll be fine, others it will judder when you slow down below about 20mph.

I just live with it tbh, as it isn't that bad.

EDIT: Also, I can confirm that my front wheel bearings are fine, head bearings have been replaced with new ones, forks have had new seals bushes and oil (as well as having the stanchions polished to remove pitting) tyre is good, and the discs and pads themselves aren't that old. Brake hoses and fluid are new too.

Old ones were OEM and juddered. New ones are EBC and still do it. Brakes have been stripped and rebuilt, and since have been cleaned on many occasions, and they still do it!

If you find a solution, I'll be pleased to hear it.
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Mellow Matt
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Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 26 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Noxious89123 wrote:
Try cleaning the discs with some brake cleaner. I found this helped with brake judder on my CBR. I was in the same situation as you. Swapped the discs, it went away only to soon return. When the pads / discs get warm, some of the brake pad material can transfer onto the discs. If this transfer is uneven you can get this juddering.

I found that if I cleaned the discs, it would go away for a short while. The thing is, it doesn't always do it. Sometimes you'll stop and it'll be fine, others it will judder when you slow down below about 20mph.

I just live with it tbh, as it isn't that bad.

EDIT: Also, I can confirm that my front wheel bearings are fine, head bearings have been replaced with new ones, forks have had new seals bushes and oil (as well as having the stanchions polished to remove pitting) tyre is good, and the discs and pads themselves aren't that old. Brake hoses and fluid are new too.

Old ones were OEM and juddered. New ones are EBC and still do it. Brakes have been stripped and rebuilt, and since have been cleaned on many occasions, and they still do it!

If you find a solution, I'll be pleased to hear it.


Thanks for the info mate. I had tried cleaning the discs, but it didn't seem to make any difference. I also got it up on a stand and tested the bearings, but they seem ok.

I've discovered that the TL's front wheel and discs are the same size as my GSXR600, so I've swapped the wheels over and the judder has gone for now. I'm going to keep using it and see if the judder comes back - if it does it must be something to do with the pads/calipers/forks I guess...
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 26 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cool, let us know what happens Thumbs Up Smile
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