Drum brake upgrades

[Piercee100]

Hiya folks, riding my H100a out in thr rain has proved to me how terrifying my brakes are! They simply stop working and the front just feels like wood whilst I can just lock the rear but its so slow to respond. I recently borrowed a friends YBR125 and had to do an emergency stop (idiot pulled out on me) and my mate said he's never seen anybody do an emergency stop using the gearbox before lol. My little Honda has taught me alot about riding and planning ahead but its not very confidence inspiring despite being alot quicker than 4t 125's.

Are their any easy upgrades for the front drum brake? The wheel and drum is the same as an early CG125. I've seen that in Australia they race H100's in bucket races and some use Kawasaki KH100 wheels as they come with discs but not sure how easy a conversion this would be? Any other choices like maybe CB125t wheels fitting or something?
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Rides: Honda H100a (Retired), VT500e (Sold), Kawasaki ZX400 (sold), Kawasaki GT550 (Sold), Suzuki Inazuma (Daily), Honda CD185t (Broken), LML Star 2t (Last run edition).

[hmmmnz]

ill tell you right now a kh front end is in no way an upgrade,
they use a cable operated caliper,
you could get a complet front end of another bike swap the stems out do it that way,

but i doubt its worth the effort unless you happen to pick up one exceedingly cheap,
you'll need the complete front end including
wheel, caliper, yokes, brackets etc,


i have a 65 vespa which supposed to have 8" wheels but has 10" instead, but runs the stock brakes, needless to say, they are fucken shit, so shit that i have to some times have to use my feet as well as the gears and brakes all in concert,

suck it up, thats are just what old bikes are about, crap brakes, crap suspension, crap handling,
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the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches

[yen_powell]

I had a drum braked XL250 a few years ago. As a minor improvement I moved the front brake lever inwards so that I was pulling it nearer the ball end and getting more leverage, it helped quite a bit.

Drum brakes and fords don't go together, until they dry you have no braking whatsoever. Don't remember them being affected by rain though.
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Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits

[Piercee100]

Hehe, actually the handling is pretty good and being a 2-stroke its fun on the bends but trying to stop it yesterday from 60mph to answer my phone took about quater of a mile- no joke. Had a child stepped out infront of me- not sure what it would be doing on the A21 anyways- it would be dead. The brakes must have been considered crap even in 1980.

Maybe somebody made performance front brake shoes?
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Rides: Honda H100a (Retired), VT500e (Sold), Kawasaki ZX400 (sold), Kawasaki GT550 (Sold), Suzuki Inazuma (Daily), Honda CD185t (Broken), LML Star 2t (Last run edition).

[stutterin' sam]

https://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/wwmcintyre/anchor.jpg

One of these should do the trick

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It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end to end, some idiot on a sports bike would be stupid enough to try and pass them.

[DrDonnyBrago]

[binge]

I've been on the mini-bike scene for a while now. And the genuine CRF50's are drum front and rear.

There are a few mods you can do to improve them.

Mod the actuator arm, to make it longer, this will give you much more leverage on the drum operation, and give a much stronger bite.
The problem you get with this is the shoes over-heating. Which could already be the problem you are getting. Sometimes the "power" isnt a problem, it's the grip.

Take the wheel off, and take the shoes out. Using a grinder, cut a pattern into the shoes. This will help when you go through water. It will however, make them wear out a little quicker, but shoes come in at around £5 for a set. So it's no biggie.

Change the front end. You dont necessarily need to buy new forks. Changing the wheel to a disc wheel would be a start, then you can make up a bracket for a caliper which works in a similar way to the rear caliper bracket on most bikes.
So you have a hole which the axle goes through, then another hole which the little stub on the fork leg sits through, and holds the bracket in place.




Ben

[truslack]

A properly set up H100 front drum will stop you pretty damn quick. Remember drum brakes need a lot more maintenance than disks, so keep on top of adjustment and they will be fine.
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Current: Suzuki RG 125 Gamma, Honda H100, Triumph Tiger 800XC, Suzuki SV650 (minitwin)

[kramdra]

caliper hanging on some bodged bracket? nope, dont do it. that shit needs to be strong, and correctly aligned.




First thing, its probably full of brake dust. this is bad, and will reduce performance, so clean it out.

Get it some new shoes! they are cheap! do it.
Clean the hub while your at it, grease the cam arm, but not too much.


Then, get a new cable, becuase they stretch.


Rear brake, same as above, but check the pivot (centrestand?) and grease it.



Then adjust them correctly. This takes some practise (in my case anyway). Set it so that you can just feel the brakes with them off, when pushing it around, then go back a turn or two.

[MarJay]

I had a similar problem on my old KE100. I spent ages on it. I cut a 'tread pattern' in the shoes with a dremel, I roughed up the inside of the drum a bit as well, and nothing helped.

Until I changed the brake cable. This sorted the problem immediately and I can only guess that the old cable was stretching when I pulled the brake. With the mods I'd done previously I could now lock the front wheel at will.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[binge]

[stinkwheel]

One thing that would make a big difference is to upgrade the cable. I made my own last time using cable that's twice as thick as standard and it made an enormous difference.

Another thing I've done on bikes with less than adequate brakes before is to fit a modern japanese span-adjustable lever. The pivot is located fUrther from the bars with these giving you a lot more leverage.

What I've used in the past for this is a Kawasaki cable operated clutch lever fitted upside down. You can use the clutch idiot switch as a brake light switch. Make sure you get ones with a straight lever, some are curved for fitting on clip-on bars.

I've also seen people lengthen the brake arm on the drum. Gives you more braking power but at the expense of having to adjust more frequently.

All that said, a new set of pads and a service (which includes removing, cleaning and greasing the cam pivot) can make a world of difference.

Ok. That's modern stuff. Now for some old fashioned stuff. Your pads need to fit the drums. The more pad touching the drum the more friction you have. So, get your new pads and draw a grid on them using chalk, maybe 1cm squares. Now fit them and spin the wheel while applying the brake. Remove them again. Any areas where the chalk has rubbed off, sand them down.

Redraw your grid and repeat the process until all the chalk is rubbed off when you apply the brakes.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Piercee100]

When I bought the bike it had been fitted with new front and rear shoes and a new front cable. They were adjusted awfully so basicly the brake leaver could almost touch the grip when It was pulled (it passed its MOT like this) so I adjusted these when I got home.

The front brake lever just feels wooden when you pull on it, I cant really describe it apart from you can feel the pressure I'm putting on the lever but whats transmitted is more like 1/5 of the pressure- i've had bicycles with better brakes. The front just seems to small.

The rain was very heavy with some exceptional puddles, I found the brakes groaned like an old man when I was using them but they soon settled down a bit when they dried a little.

So I think I'll try a thicker cable and some better quality front shoes, maybe they were cheapie fleabay ones that were fitted and I'll also check how much coverage they're making inside the drum. Something I noticed when I borrowed a YBR was that apart from being cheaply made and slow it had a front disk brake that nearly threw me over the handlebars! Having 1/100 of that power would be nice lol
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Rides: Honda H100a (Retired), VT500e (Sold), Kawasaki ZX400 (sold), Kawasaki GT550 (Sold), Suzuki Inazuma (Daily), Honda CD185t (Broken), LML Star 2t (Last run edition).

[trisers]

Another thing to check is that the hub isn't worn beyond it's service limit. When i got my H100 the rear brake was next to useless despite cleaning, new pads and greasing the pivot cam etc...on checking the hub internal diameter i found it was worn nearly 0.5mm beyond specs.

I bought a second hand wheel (had to get a new set of spokes but thats another story lol) which was still in its service limit and the difference in braking performance was huge.

[Piercee100]

How would I find out what the hub internal diamerter is supposed to be? I had that problem on an old Vauxhall Viva a long time ago and hadnt thought of that one, but may explain why I had to adjust the front so much to get the lever pull about right? Could it wear so much in 17k miles?
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Rides: Honda H100a (Retired), VT500e (Sold), Kawasaki ZX400 (sold), Kawasaki GT550 (Sold), Suzuki Inazuma (Daily), Honda CD185t (Broken), LML Star 2t (Last run edition).

[trisers]

The front hub diameter is (new)110.0 mm with a service limit of 111.0 mm...so if it's worn beyond that you need a replacement.

The H100S hub is the same so sourcing one shouldn't be too difficult if need be.

HTH?