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Stiff clutch on cb125

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Louden
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 21 Sep 2011    Post subject: Stiff clutch on cb125 Reply with quote

I recently bought a 1981 Honda cb125, the clutch lever is really stiff and hard to pull, there doesn't seem to be a kink in the cabling.

Is this a matter of the clutch springs? Can old springs cause this problem?

I could get used to it but my hands hurt after riding it I'd rather just try and get a softer response if its possible/easy.

Cheers.
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 21 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's almost certainly the cable, disconnect both ends and see if it moves easily, if it doesn't, squirt some WD40 or light oil down it and work it up and down until it does. If that's not the problem you need some-one handy with spanners and at least some knowledge to get inside the motor and get searching. Best of luck.
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MickC
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 21 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is the cable consider buying a new one. The last one i had that was stiff snapped after i had freed it up. Also dirty engine oil can effect the clutch. If it turns out to be nether then it could be the plates are sticking together.
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Louden
L Plate Warrior



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PostPosted: 19:05 - 21 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The clutch arm that cable is attached to is really difficult to move. I feel like the cable is fine, looks greased inside and no kinks, however I will double check.
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MickC
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 21 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drain the oil and remove the clutch cover, undo the retaining bolts for the plates and give them a clean. If you have a manual for it see what the wear limits are for the plates. you can try David Silver, Fowlers or Lings for replacement parts. At the age of the bike you will have to hunt for bits ( I know my bike in my sig. is also an 81 )
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 21 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 1972 CB125S that may well be similar.My clutch cable would snap every year orso,until I found the reason why it was sooooo heavy.Basically,the handlebar lever pulled the cable against a cast in edge on the lever itself.This sharp edge was dressed down with a needle file and the problem was solved.

There was an article in Classic Motor Cycle Mechanics anout an early CB125S being brought back to its former glory after a lengthy resoration.The clutch lever bracket on the cover changed from what I remember between the CB125S and the CB125J.But it still pushed in a pushrod inside of the cover.There was an adjuster at the bottom of the outer cover that you had to adjust properly before you could then adjust the course cable adjuster and then the handlebar lever fine adjuster.
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MickC
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PostPosted: 06:02 - 22 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzer Thou wrote:
I had a 1972 CB125S that may well be similar.My clutch cable would snap every year orso,until I found the reason why it was sooooo heavy.Basically,the handlebar lever pulled the cable against a cast in edge on the lever itself.This sharp edge was dressed down with a needle file and the problem was solved.

There was an article in Classic Motor Cycle Mechanics anout an early CB125S being brought back to its former glory after a lengthy resoration.The clutch lever bracket on the cover changed from what I remember between the CB125S and the CB125J.But it still pushed in a pushrod inside of the cover.There was an adjuster at the bottom of the outer cover that you had to adjust properly before you could then adjust the course cable adjuster and then the handlebar lever fine adjuster.


If his is an 81 model as he says it will most likely be the twin version and as he says it is the clutch lever arm that is stiff not the cable. Did the one you had have any other clutch problems that might point him in the right direction, as i have said I can only think it is to do with the plates?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 22 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic CB125 Newbie Links wrote:


1981 Honda CB125, doesn't help us identify the bike you're struggling with too well, I'm afraid. That was change over year for the CB125 'Twin' from 6v points ignition Twin-Shock to 12v electric start mono-shock. So there's two bikes it could be. There's then the CB125 S/J single and I'm not sure if it could also be CB125RS single!

How many cylinders do you have?
How many shock absorbers do you have?
What voltage is your battery!

(Think those three q's should help us nail it!)

HOWEVER..... The 'Grandady' of them all is the CB125S (actually there was an earlier version; CL125, I think, which came in two or three guises, one with knobly tyres and hi-level exhaust that went on to become the XL dirt bike, while CB badge attached to the 'sporty' road version!)..... Its 'advanced' Overhead Cam Single, was surprisingly sporting in its day, but lacked performance for Europe and reliability / serviceability for Asia. Leading to two pronged redesign, giving us the CB125T twin for performance and the CG125 for serviceability/reliability. Twin went on top be evolved from twin-shock to monoshock to become the TD-C 'Super-Dream', de-tuned to meet UK 125 Learner Limits, while the 'S' soldiored on, becoming the 'J' and then resytled and revamped, the RS.

This is all rather accademic for you; but, significantly the 'bottom end' of the 'Small-Bore-Hondas' due to the ancestry share a lot of commonality and interchangeability. Fixer mentioned the clutch adjust mechanism on the S & J, but others I believe all have fixed 'rod' actuation.

HOW2: Overhaul Clutch (Small Honda's +)

Shows clutch being overhauled in a Super-Dream, and as mentioned in there; the clutch is generic, and the plates & springs are CG & CG Copy engine parts, and can be procured off e-bay for under £20.... buy the castle nut socket rather than trying to make one, and its still barely more than a full tank of petrol!

We are talking 3o year old motorcycles; with design 'life' of 7 years and 35K miles. Anything still running, will all most certainly have either spent a long part of its life 'derelict', and been ressusitated / renovated, possibly more than once, with any degree of considered or more often ill considered mechanics!

CABLE is the top suspect on the list; and I was always of the mind, that cables are cheap, yet amazed by how loath people are to throw old ones, stretched, missing nipples, siezed, or generally shit; away. Think they are a tenner; GET A NEW ONE.

HANDLEBAR LEVER; make sure its the right one for the bike! Also check the lever blade carefully, people do daft things with them. Bladed from other bikes get wedged into brackets not designed to take them when blades get broken; the nipple holes get filed to take wrong cables, ALL sorts of 'stuff' COULD be wrong in this one simple mechanism, that could make the clutch stiff and or awkward.

CABLE ROUTING: Cables start at the handlebar and end at the engine. Route they take between the two, OUGHT to be as straight as possible with as few bends, and as wide a bends as possible, and routed through the head-stock area varefully to avoid it getting trapped or snagged or a tight bend being put on the cable as the steering moves from lock to lock. Again, often cocked up, very tight bends will make cable stiff. BUT quite common for cables to get snagged between the fork yoke and lock stops on the frame, and pinched every time the bike is parked, the outer cable, a steel coil, gets 'dented' pinching the inner cable running inside...... New cable, careful routing.....

CABLE ADJUSTMENT: As fizer mentions; some of the earlier models have actuation adjustors on the engine that need adjusting before the cable. This is often ignored. On later bikes, adjustment is only possible on the cable, but has two ends, and MAIN adjustor is down at the engine end..... BUT like adjustiung push-bike brakes far to many people simply wind out the 'free-play' adjustor at the lever end. That ought to be adjusted to about 5mm from fully in; the slack in the cable taken up engine end on the longer, bigger diameter adjustor, then THAT lever end adjustor used merely to 'set' the free play on the lever, and fine tune where the bite point is in the lever travel to your preference. THIS makes big difference to how hard it is to work the clutch..... pay particular attention to the bite point... if you have little hands and bite point too far out, can be a strain working the clutch at the highest 'stiffness' of the range; if adjusted to close to the bar, takes a lot of lever travel to get bite point, and lots of clutch action will mean lots of excersize, and hand ache.... WORTH paying attension to.

OIL CHANGE. Its a wet clutch. Friction plates run in the engine oil. IF the oil is too thick a grade, makes clutch heavy and drag. Old dirty oil has similar effect. Also on bike left 'Derelict' any length of time, clutch is sat squashing the oil from between the plates, and they can get 'glued' together. New oil can make world of diference.

SEE article on cleaning oil strainer; Small Hondas noteably renowned for siezing due to poor top end lubrication; frequently atributed to clogged oil strainer; oft neglected, and significantly NOT 'done' on resussitated 'Derelicts' where old oil has been left with sediment forming RIGHT where its going to get sucked into that oil pump first time the engine is turned over.

Its worth, not just changing oil, but pulling primary drive cover; having a look at the strainer, and possibly doing 'something' with the clutch.

Likely that clutch could simply be sticky and stripping and cleaning would make a huge difference; BUT for the sake of £20 doing the job just once, and properly, I'd get a set of plates and springs, and be done with it!

You get the chance to look for any abuse or damage while you are there, and while pretty robust; if the plates are worn, the levers all working towards limit of travel, they can get very 'stiff'.

So, start lever end, work through the system, one step at a time, and ponder that oil and strainer, and whether JUST for the sake of it, sorting clutch while you are in there.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 22 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how you could tell if the clutch arm is stiff without removing the cover because by design, when it's in place, you'll be working the clutch which is stiff anyway.

I too would strongly suspect the cable until proved otherwise*. There can be a broken strand which has unravelled itself inside the outer so it appears normal outwardly. The barell nipple at the top end can also be seized into the lever.

* You haven't proved otherwise until you have detached the cable and pulled on either end of it to make sure it moves freely.
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Louden
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 22 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comprehensive advice! I will, as I said earlier, double check the cable and if it isn't the problem I have more than enough here to go on. If I need advice (most likely) I'll be back Smile
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Fizzer Thou
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 22 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

MickC wrote:
Fizzer Thou wrote:
I had a 1972 CB125S that may well be similar.My clutch cable would snap every year orso,until I found the reason why it was sooooo heavy.Basically,the handlebar lever pulled the cable against a cast in edge on the lever itself.This sharp edge was dressed down with a needle file and the problem was solved.

There was an article in Classic Motor Cycle Mechanics anout an early CB125S being brought back to its former glory after a lengthy resoration.The clutch lever bracket on the cover changed from what I remember between the CB125S and the CB125J.But it still pushed in a pushrod inside of the cover.There was an adjuster at the bottom of the outer cover that you had to adjust properly before you could then adjust the course cable adjuster and then the handlebar lever fine adjuster.


If his is an 81 model as he says it will most likely be the twin version and as he says it is the clutch lever arm that is stiff not the cable. Did the one you had have any other clutch problems that might point him in the right direction, as i have said I can only think it is to do with the plates?


Thank you for that.I was only using my experience of my 125 from my earliest days of riding a bike to say where I had a problem with my clutch,and,having had the clutch apart on my 'S' model, found no problem with it.
But on my CB125T2 that I have now,
https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/20100611_9.jpg

The clutch actuation is the same,with the clutch lifter rod being steel passing through an alloy outer cover.There is a seal in there,but with a small expanding pin holding the lifter rod in place,it was not easy to remove in order to lubricate the rod.After lubricating the rod as best I could it worked fine after removing all of the clutch plates and cleaning the friction and steel plates.After 20 odd years of not being run,this clutch now runs very smoothly.
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