Group Riding (very unfinished)

[G]

Right, I resurrected this thread as I thought it might be useful for some of the people that haven't been out on so many 'BCF' rides. I was actually thinking about it while riding yesterday, after wave crashed, but before I'd seen the ensuing arguments.

-

This aint anywhere near finished yet, but thought it was worth chucking up for everyone to ignore before the bank holiday weekend ride outs .

Group Riding:

Different people and groups view the reasons and 'rules' of group riding differently, though there's some bits you should always stick to:

Don't Ride right behind the rider in front.
I see this a lot and it can turn out very nasty.
If you stagger the formation as such then you've quite twice the distance to stop when the person in front has to brake hard or does something stupid.
I've often seen people riding three or four bikes in a row, with only a bike length or two between them, if the first person has to brake hard the distance between them is going to be taken up by the reaction time. Generally I would try to leave a decent amount of distance anyway; this lets you get a better view of what's happening ahead. It also give you more time to asses what the other riders are doing: for instance you may miss that the rider just in front of you is suddenly swerving to avoid that squished fox in the middle of the road. From further back you give yourself the time to work out why the other riders are doing what they're doing. You can also get a better idea of lines people are taking, where people are braking and whether they're actually doing it well.

Keep a good view of what other riders are doing
As mentioned above, keeping an eye on what other riders are doing makes it much easier to anticipate road hazards, conditions or just a nice corner. You can also for instance get an idea that there's a speedtrap ahead when the other riders are slowing down for no particular reason.... or maybe just a fit woman (or man, before the women complain) walking past that's gawp-worthy.

Do remember that no one does everything 100% right all the time, so just because the person in front takes that corner at 75mph, doesn't mean they're going to get around it at that speed, or at all.

If you don't know where you're going, don't bugger off.
Obvious really, but if you're unsure of the route ahead then being in front my leave you stranded as everyone else takes a turning you've already gone past.

Be clear with you signals and manoeuvres.
Did he stick his hand out to signal turning or just to stretch? Make sure that if you are trying to give a signal to others (be it warning of a speed trap or to pull over because you've just noticed your bike is on fire) that you make sure it is as clear an obvious as possible.
The same when manoeuvring your bike in relation to other bikes. If you're going for an overtake, make sure you're safe and do it. If you're going to do a wheelie or some other similarly 'dangerous' manoeuvre, make sure that people are aware you're going to do it and you have plenty of space etc.






BCF Group riding.
DO
Ride for your self. Just because someone's taking a corner, traffic or even just a straight faster than you doesn't mean you have to. The person in front may just be a lot more experienced/skilled than you. Their bike may be better set up than yours. They may know the roads better than you. or They may be about to crash They may be about to get busted So don't feel bad that you can't take that corner at the speed they're doing.


Ride for yourself
On most of the BCF group-rides I've been on there have been people of many abilities and many different bikes. Everyone wants to have fun, so don't expect the people on R1s with full leathers and knackered sliders to sit with the cg125 rider with textiles. Nor should the cg rider try to keep up with the R1. As above, ride for yourself and enjoy the ride. Doesn't seem much point doing it if you're not enjoying it, whether you're on the cg trying to keep up or the r1 having to go at a relative snails pace. Hopefully someone that knows the route will wait at junctions to point the way if you're behind. In the end if no one is courteous enough to do so... do you really want to be riding with arseholes like that?
If you get lost it's generally best to go back to the point you were last with people and wait. As with the above, just because someone takes a corner fast, doesn't mean you have to follow, they may know it's actually a blind chicane and are trying to get the most out of it. You won't find out until you're heading towards a large chevron at the side of the road. Assess the corner for yourself and ride it as fast as you deem safe for you. In the same way, be very careful when overtaking. Just because the rider in front, or even behind can make an overtake safely doesn't mean you can. It may be that that person was millimetres away from being splatted, it could also be the luck of the draw that if you try it you won't be so lucky.



Make sure you have contact mobile numbers.
Yes, people do get lost (even if it's finding the initial meeting point), and mobiles are very useful way to help people along. No use if you don't have everyone's number, so best to find out before you leave home.

It'd be nice if you:

If possible it's good to have a fast person keeping up the rear. The person at the front probably wants to be someone fairly quick (who knows the route
obviously) so that the faster people don't get bored. The position of everyone else will be probably be determined by their riding styles and bikes.



DON'T

Get in other's way
If someone behind wants to get past it would be nice to give them room so they can do a safer overtake. I usually stick to the left side of the road.
However do not compromise your own riding. So don't pull over to a position that puts you in more danger.
Make sure you make the manoeuvre slowly and with consideration - the other person may be about to go past you in the empty space you are about to occupy.
Also, in a similar fashion, if someone wants to do some wheelies etc, it'd be nice to give them room to have their fun.

Worry to much
It's supposed to be fun, remember, so don't worry too much about all the above.
Any time I've ridden with BCF people it's been pretty informal and people have turned up to enjoy themselves .

[Rob]

Well said G, some very important info there to help avoid little incidents!

Good one
____________________
Love is 1050cc

[Danny]

Probably should add in there that it is very helpful if people have fully working brake lights.

[ProXimaCore]

Good stuff! Definetely going to be useful next week.

Also, make sure you charge your mobile phone before you set off. So many times I've ran out of battery on my mobile when Ive been out.
____________________
Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[fazed]

Do not look at G while attempting to go round a blind deceptive corner on a country road

[G]

If you'd watched me, you might have seen that I slowed down as I went wide... the problem was more that you could see the road going straight on, but couldn't see that it was actually a side road and the real road went around in a sharp corner.
(Presuming it was that incident you meant)

[fazed]

indeed , you just dissapeared around the bushes and i went straight across bit embarrassing as you then stuck your thumb and i knew i didint get away with it

[cliff]

[G]

I appreciate this isn't everybody's idea of a good ride, but suspect it about right for most done through BCF.
I certainly wouldn't enjoy a ride where we ride to the level of the lowest common denominator, in less that was me; but then I'd feel bad for holding everyone up.

Something else worth considering:
The Vanishing Point

I in no way claim to be an 'advanced' rider, but this is often touted as an advanced riding technique, hopefully I've presented it fairly accurately.
The vanishing point is the point at which the road 'vanishes'. On a perfectly straight road this would be miles into the distance. On a tight corner, this could be a couple of meters away where the road 'disappears' around the corner. This point can be used to set your speed for corners and the road in general, it is very useful on roads that you don't know too well.

The basic rule is:
If the vanishing point is getting closer to you, slow down.
If the vanishing point is getting further away from you, speed up.
If the vanishing point is staying at the same distance, keep your speed constant.

This can apply to all road condition, not just corners. For instance, you can treat a crest or a dip as a vanishing point. Ok, you may not come to a complete stop if you can't see over/down it before, but it's advisable to slow down a fair bit - there could be a kid in the road ahead, a tight corner just after the dip or a cop with a speed gun.
Big hedge rows can also limit visibility, making the vanishing point nearer, which is also a good reason to slow down if you don't know what's ahead.

Yes, there are many other techniques for just assessing the road, never mind ways to keep you out of hedges. I would recommend at least 'Motorcycle Roadcraft; A Police Rider's Handbook' as a great resource, not too expensive on Amazon etc either. If you've got a bit more time to spend, I'm sure some proper advanced riding tuition wouldn't go amiss.




Obviously this is by no means comprehensive, so please, feel free to add, correct or tell me I'm being stupid (though do expect me to defend my views if you do the latter ).

[yambabe]

Spot-on G.

I know I can't ride as fast as a lot of people. I don't try to. On a rideout, I am usually middle-to-back, and happy to be there.

One other thing I'd like to add though, is that if there are a lot of you, use route markers to ensure everyone is aware of junctions & turnoffs etc. First man up stops, and waves other riders through until the last man has gone past. In the meantime, if there has been another change of direction, the next man will stop etc etc. As these people are generally the faster riders anyway they find it easier to overtake the pack again and regain their "place" once all the others have passed.

If there's only a few of you, it's better to plan the basic route ahead before you set off, and give everyone a copy or let them know it. Also arrange "waiting points" along the route where the faster guys can stop for a fag/piss/drink whilst waiting for others to catch up.
____________________
Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate.

[G]

Babyyam:
Generally when I've ridden with BCF people it's been a bit less formal:
For instance on last sunday Korn was just looking at which way the arrow on his GPS pointed and we went that way!
(Though I'm sure others do have slightly more 'formal' rides )

It's usually me that ends up waiting for other people at junvtions, so maybe some others could do this as well, for when I'm not there (does give me an opportunity to make up the distance between the back and front at speed as well though, so aint complaining ).

[yambabe]

LOL a lot of our rides are like that too G, just me and him and a tatty AA road atlas! Occasionally a couple of other mates too......

I think if there's only a few of you and you know and are used to each others riding, group riding is so much easier. It's when you get a lot of people of mixed abilities that it can get a bit hair-raising and you need to be a bit more formal in your planning.

Even when we plan our route on the map, if I am in front I am forever missing turnings cos I am concentrating on the road and not reading the directional road signs.
____________________
Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate.

[Zoffo]

Done quite a bit of group riding lately and I find the best tip is to drop the second man off at junctions to indicate the way for the rest of the pack. If it's a big group your going to have different paced riders so doing this makes sure no one gets lost. It also takes away the pressure to ride faster than your abilities to keep up with the guys who know the route
____________________
https://hyperbikes.forumsplace.com/

[Yeti]

G You were saying in your first post make it obvious when you have a problem/ see a problem / want to pull over.

With the lads i ride out with if we have a problem we tap the top of our helmet a few times then point to the problem or pull over as this indicates to everyone that something is wrong so be ready for the person to pull over or have problems.

Just a suggestion that i thought might help.
____________________
Lifes a Beach!

[TOM M]

some top advice there

when i had my rs125 i used to do quite a bit of group riding, it didnt help me having a restricted 125 and everyone else's was de-restricted, to start with i would be riding too hard and not thinking about the current road situation etc, my sole aim was to try to keep up and i did have quite a few close calls.
But whilst doing so i didnt catch on to the fact that every now and again the group would pull over or slow down a bit. Then after i caught onto the fact that this was happening, i relaxed more and had a much nicer ride overall because i knew that wether it be in 1/4 mile or even 10 miles down the rode i would re-gain the group.
When i ride more relaxed i actually tended to find i rode a bit quicker and a lot safer as i was actually aware of what was going on around me and on many occassion actually managed to stay around the middle of the group.

I do enjoy group riding more and i gain a lot of experiance etc by watching how other people handle various situations when we go out and i can see thier lines etc and learn from them in my future riding.

Obviously the actual riding is the best part, but another good factor about group riding is stopping for a break etc as it brings a good social aspect to the rideout.
____________________
Now owner of a 1200 Bandit

[Annabella]

Ride for yourself - yes...

BUT, keep one eye in the mirror for those following you to make sure that they are ok. If the guy at the back has a little accident, or a problem and no one is looking out for them, then they are completely on their own.


If you are with a group of people who are on faster bikes and have more road experience then don't try to keep up with them if you are not comfortable (I know the red mist decends and it become difficult to resist, but there should also be some kind of survival instinct too - Wave seemingly doesn't have this ) stick to your own pace and enjoy yourself. If there is someone who is really struggling to keep up with the group then it won't completely ruin your day to wait for them occasionally
____________________
Avast! Pirates ahoy!
I did Cadwell!
www.bikepics.com/members/bella

[Zoffo]

Another advanced group riding technique is to have a spotter for overtaking. If your following a big arsed truck you end up with everyone trying to see round each other to get a view of the road which means people get progressively further and further out of their lane.

First guy pulls out onto the oncoming lane when he sees it's clear but doesn't overtake. He leaves enough space for the others to pull ot and overtake. They know it's clear or he wouldn't be sitting right in the middle of the on coming lane.
If he pulls back in then everyone knows something is coming. When he pulls out and hangs back you know it's clear.
____________________
https://hyperbikes.forumsplace.com/

[Dom_]

[Black Knight]

Keep your distance

Don't worry about losing sight of the person in front or trying to catch up.

Keep a good distance between the rider in front and youself. Some of the worst bike accidents are during group rides are when a mistake by one rider will bring the whole group down.

Concentrate on the road, not the bike 2 meters in front of you.
____________________
Where does a turn end? 'Where you can do anything with the gas you want to, where you are brave again, where your attention is free from the turn, where you are sure you can do it better next time; that's the end' - Keith Code.

[Zoffo]

You distance when riding in staggered formation should be one that allows you to see the visor of the rider in front through his mirrors. This is actually quite a big window but will always put you at a minimum safe distance from the guy in front and you know for a fact he can see you. The biggest mistake is riding in someones blind spot. If you are so close you can't see his visor then he can't see you.
____________________
https://hyperbikes.forumsplace.com/

[TOM M]

[G]

[quote="Zoffo"]You distance when riding in staggered formation should be one that allows you to see the visor of the rider in front. [quote]
Note that 'visor' bit isn't the case for all bikes, though to the rest.
For instance, I have to turn my head a fair bit to get a decent view behind on the RS, and so if you actually could properly see my visor you would probably be a lying on the ground or something.
However the basic idea I do try and do - and of course you can watch for them checking in thier mirrors, presuming they do .
Never mind korn's under-elbow Supermoto mirror .


On the 'spotter' for overtaking bit, while the idea all makes sense and I'm sure works well, I'd only really want to see others doing that if everyone knew each others riding styles well, etc. Doesn't seem to happen so much on BCF rideouts where attendance is often pretty random .

[Andy C]

good advise G, i wish i read it before going on a group ride a few sundays back as i was directly behind the next rider but davo and white noise soon told me this was not a good idea, that vanishing point technique sound really interesting as i somtime find it hard to judge the right speed for the corners.
____________________
99 RS125 --> 02 SV650s --> 03 Speed Four --> 92 RXS100 --> 93 CB400sf --> 01 CB600f Hornet

[Wave2k]

what about on rideouts, if people want to do wheelies,
like you and korn were doing, and various stoppies.
thats cool isnt it ?
____________________
Ducati 1299 Panigale
2009 Corvette C6 z51
RS125->CBR400->RXS100->GSXR750K2->Ducati749S->CBR600RR5->TL1000R->DRz400->RSVR1000->Honda VTR SP1->CBR400->GSXR1000K6->Honda H100->CBR600RR3->Ducati1299

[G]

Taken from the above: