Driving without due care and attention

[Jayy]

Just narrowly missed out on being summoned for the offence but it got me wondering what the out come would have been if they had written it up...

Coming along a road in a 30, was allegedly doing more than 30 near a college. I wait at the lights, swing right and out of nowhere, blacked out Audi pulls up next to me and the copper (black clothing) shouts "Turn it off and give me the keys".

I refused to give him the keys but I turned the bike off. Introductions over, I take the lid off and he gets out, along with a marked car behind me who also gets out.

CID guy says how I was riding carelessly and going way too fast. I asked how fast and he says "too fast". I ask again how they know my speed and he repeats it was too fast. He knew what he was talking about, was a biker himself but the first one who's actually said it who picked up on several things on the bike. He asked where the baffle was in the exhaust, why I have no rear indicators (integrated tail unit) which he said was illegal, why there was no tax disc and why I had no mirrors.

Tells me I'm going to court repeatedly, being properly off hand as well. I managed to calm him down though by being polite and reasonable (as I always do anyway) and after a severe bollocking, basically says he can't be arsed writing it up.

Few things though...

He said, "By all means, take it out on the open roads and hammer it, I don't stick to the speed limits on my bike on the open roads and I know you don't".

Also, at the very end when he said, "You must have known you were doing more than 30" to which I replied, "I don't know exactly how fast I was going in all honesty but it was probably more than 30". This was after they had said they were letting me off. At which point, he replied, "See, we could easily do you for it after admitting that under caution".

Neither of them cautioned me at any point either.

Also, bare in mind, they were going the opposite direction when I passed them and said they both had to turn around. The road is narrow and it wouldn't have been a simple U-turn, they would have had to do a 3 point turn to follow me, at which point, my alleged speed, there's no way they saw me driving without due care and attention. He just said he heard the bike winding up.

So, had they written it up (I wouldn't have said the last part if they were doing me for it), would I have had a leg to stand on in court against 2 coppers in separate vehicles?

Does it only take 2 coppers word to stick a DWDCA summons on you?

[pooley_99]

these coppers sound like a right pair of bellends. Your politeness and reasoning probably saved you.
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CBR 900RR Fireblade

[Jayy]

The guy in the marked car was a very nice bloke, I'm also 99% sure I've seen him on TV on either Traffic Coppers or Police Interceptors, he looked very familiar.

The guy in the unmarked car was being very off handed from the start but I agree, just goes to show how being polite and reasonable/co-operative with the police goes a long way.

[T.C]

In reply to the first part of your post, if the copper was not in what can be identified as a uniform(which is decided by the Chief constable as to what is deemed as uniform) then you cannot be stopped or reported for any offences as that can only be done by a Policeman in uniform, and so the reason it probably did not go any further was because it was possibly just an idle threat to put the wind up your kilt, as he would have known that you have a statutory defence to being prosecuted.

Had you been reported, then you would have been reported for dangerous as well as careless (Driving without due care falls under the heading of careless driving) and then if decided to prosecute depending on the evidence the summons would be issued for the lesser offence.

On the second point regarding corroborative evidence, it does not require 2 coppers or even video evidence. A traffic policeman can give expert evidence of opinion (as I have done on many occasions) and it requires the reporting policeman and CPS to prove that the standard of driving or riding fell well below that of a reasonably safe and competent driver or rider.
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[Jayy]

T.C.

As a man of the law yourself, based on your expert opinion given in court, have you ever lost a case to somebody based on nothing more than your opinion?

Unfortunately, most people, myself included, are not aware of all the laws and statutes regarding most things until we're prosecuted for them. I definitely don't know the law well enough to have known that about the non uniformed copper.

That may explain how I got away with popping a little wheelie a couple of years back when I first got a big bike and a similar situation but CID in on his own, plain clothes. Goes through all the motions then says he's not writing it up.

[stinkwheel]

If I was cut off by a blacked out Audi containing someone dressed in black clothing, I would have fucked off as fast as my little engine would carry me in fear of my life and property.

The biggest mistake you made was admitting to exceeding 30mph, directly to a copper, inj front of a witnesses. If he'd wanted to be a total cunt (and in fairness, it sounds like he was most of the way there anyway or has some serious issues with his penis size for a CID officer to be carrying out traffic stops), he might have just done you for speeding anyway, even though he'd said he wouldn't.

I think they'd have had trouble making DCA stick if they told the truth (ie. heard your engine noise then performed a 3-point turn to pull you in and as such didn't actually witness anything). Hovever, coppers are generally untrustworthy so the story may well have changed by the time it got to court.

I wouldn't have been polite to them. I would have been scathingly sarcastic with a dash of impertinent.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[UrbanRacer]

[pooley_99]

[Jayy]

Stinkwheel, the way the CID started off, if I had matched his attitude, I would have a nice ticket in my hand right now and waiting for a summons. I have no doubt the way I handled it got me off with a bollocking only.

[Alpha-9]

I'd have told them to fuck off and to see me in court, cunts.

At least that's what i'd be saying afterwards, after apologising and being sent on my way like a pussy

Couldn't you have asked how they can say what speed is too fast if they can't even tell you how fast you were approximately travelling?
They sound like a pair of cunts.

Interesting to know about admitting to speeding, even if you know you were speeding you might as well lie through your teeth as there's no bonus punishment for lying about speeding as there is for doing it
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Fzr-600 1999

[goto10]

[pooley_99]

[yaigi]

I was told my a traffic cop that they have to be following you for a certain distance/time (can't remember which it is) in order to get enough evidence recorded to book you for the said offence. Told this after I clocked a police car behind me when I was doing 90mph + on a 60 road, saw the police and slowed right down, so he pulled me over, but he couldn't give me a ticket apparently, just a good telling off Doesn't sound like they did this, but I'm sure they would have got you on some minor point at some point down the line.
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What would you do in life, if you knew you could not fail?
Currently own - Fazer 600, 2000, Red. (But no riding as baby on board atm)

[Jayy]

If he'd wanted to, he could have done me for failing to display tax disc and the indicators and possibly the exhaust baffle but would have been hard to prove that one without taking the bike.

[.Bishbash.]

Yeah they had no evidence, no leg to stand on...Until you confessed

Having no mirrors is not an offense, but is an integrated tail unit illegal?
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Current bike - GSX-R1000 k8

[T.C]

[gaffa]

[J4mes]

[gaffa]

^^^

??? No, do enlighten me?
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MOD 1 passed 30/07/12, MOD 2 passed 13/08/12. Current bike: 2008 Kawasaki ER6f

[barrkel]

[gaffa]

Oh well, best delete my post then
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MOD 1 passed 30/07/12, MOD 2 passed 13/08/12. Current bike: 2008 Kawasaki ER6f

[frostage]

[ocatoro]

last i checked, the hearing of a bellend in a car was not type approved by the home office as a speed detection device.

ergo... you'd have got off. absolutely no doubt in my mind.
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CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600

[petrolhead69]

Maybe if your bike wasn't too loud you wouldn't have got the tug in the first place? Loud pipes are just begging for harassment and only succeed in making the rider look like an attention seeking twat.

[covent.gardens]