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Despairing Over Mod 2

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TomGT
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Despairing Over Mod 2 Reply with quote

You may know I have had some trouble with the mod 2 test, but today I failed for the fourth time, I've had this examiner for 3/4 attempts.

He failed me again for road positioning, when turning right I was always in the right quarter of the lane, aiming for the first gap in the white blobs each time, but with me and the bike over my side of the white line, yet the examiner kept pulling alongside to the left Confused

When turning left, I was again in the left quarter, close to the kurb, again aiming for the first gap in the white blobs, yet he failed me for turning right. I really don't know where I went wrong, I asked him how it constituted a serious fault, but he didn't really answer, suggesting only training to 'brush up' on my skills. Interestingly, the last time I tried for the test where I failed for something completely different, the examiner (different one) made no comment about my positioning, just the steering error.

So what should I do? Appealing to the DSA isn't going to get me very far, except making it harder to retake. Another option is booking again and asking for a different examiner, but I doubt this is possible. There's always book at another test centre, which is do-able.

The last option is to give up and just stick to the 125, which I felt a bit like doing earlier, but I really want to pass, and I've already sunk so much money getting this far. So what does bcf think? Sad
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cimbian
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the examiner pulled alongside you it would suggest he/she felt your road positioning was a danger and they were guarding you.

Speak to your instructor. If you have not had instruction maybe it is worth reconsidering, after all you have blown £225 in test fees so far.
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TomGT
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

cimbian wrote:
If the examiner pulled alongside you it would suggest he/she felt your road positioning was a danger and they were guarding you.

Speak to your instructor. If you have not had instruction maybe it is worth reconsidering, after all you have blown £225 in test fees so far.


Fair enough if I was turning right and he pulled alongside to my right, but turning right and pulling up on my left Confused
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Benno
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different examiner, different test centre, maybe?
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TomGT
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benno wrote:
Different examiner, different test centre, maybe?


the only problem is trying to get a booking, the earliest some of the centre's can do is December Sad
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psychodame
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, deepest sympathy for this - I'm struggling to get my Mod 1 done, (failed it 3 times so far) so fully understand how disheartened, frustrated and upset you must feel.

My advice, is to battle on and get the damn test done and passed. If you can get to a different test centre then try that, but check first to make sure that your examiner doesn't also cover that centre too. Where I live I believe that the same examiners cover quite a large test area and therefore visit quite a few other test centres. The last thing you need is to turn up for another test to fing you've got the same examiner again!!
It may be that by now your subconscious is feeling that your local centre is jinxed and that won't be helping with your riding.

Have you been back to where you were trained and asked them for an assessment on your riding, and more importantly if they know any gossip about this examiner?

Above all, you've invested a lot of money, time, effort and nerves in getting so far. Please don't give up at this stage, just think ahead to a month or so's time, when you're out on your lovely big bike enjoying the ride, and you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. I keep on telling myself that, and it kind of keeps me going.

Good luck for next time... xx
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TomGT
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

psychodame wrote:
First of all, deepest sympathy for this - I'm struggling to get my Mod 1 done, (failed it 3 times so far) so fully understand how disheartened, frustrated and upset you must feel.

My advice, is to battle on and get the damn test done and passed. If you can get to a different test centre then try that, but check first to make sure that your examiner doesn't also cover that centre too. Where I live I believe that the same examiners cover quite a large test area and therefore visit quite a few other test centres. The last thing you need is to turn up for another test to fing you've got the same examiner again!!
It may be that by now your subconscious is feeling that your local centre is jinxed and that won't be helping with your riding.

Have you been back to where you were trained and asked them for an assessment on your riding, and more importantly if they know any gossip about this examiner?

Above all, you've invested a lot of money, time, effort and nerves in getting so far. Please don't give up at this stage, just think ahead to a month or so's time, when you're out on your lovely big bike enjoying the ride, and you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. I keep on telling myself that, and it kind of keeps me going.

Good luck for next time... xx


I've been entering myself if that makes sense, I did 3 hours training before my 3rd which only created problems that weren't there before. The examiner said some of the things I'd been told weren't right and he'd get the assesors on it Confused

With my contract ending at the end of this month I just can't afford the training, as far as I can tell I didn't do anything wrong, so training doesn't make any sense to me Sad
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only advice I can give is to maybe have an hours lesson with an instructor and tell him what's been happening on your tests and get him to look out for anything he would consider wrong with your turning, then take it from there.

Then re-book mod 2 at another test centre.

That's what I would do under your circumstances anyway.

Good luck for your next test Thumbs Up
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you paint for us?

IMO this is where you should be when indicating to turn right:
https://imm.io/InAY
I might be wrong though, anyone else suggest a better position?
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TomGT
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

tbourner wrote:
Can you paint for us?

IMO this is where you should be when indicating to turn right:
https://imm.io/InAY
I might be wrong though, anyone else suggest a better position?


it was for turning out of T junctions, in your diagram it goes kerb-blob-gap-blob etc, I had my front wheel in the first gap.
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psychodame
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got some notes that are drawings that I was given by my trainer, that show the turning positions for X roads and T junctions.

If anyone wants a copy of them I can email as a .pdf if you'd care to PM me an email addy.
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomGT wrote:
tbourner wrote:
Can you paint for us?

IMO this is where you should be when indicating to turn right:
https://imm.io/InAY
I might be wrong though, anyone else suggest a better position?


it was for turning out of T junctions, in your diagram it goes kerb-blob-gap-blob etc, I had my front wheel in the first gap.


Aha my mistake.

Same kind of positioning applies though, so basically not enough room for a bike to get alongside you without being over the central line.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Implies two things:-

1/ Lack of confidence / Over confidence

Usually if they give you mutable fail reasons they basically aren't happy you are 'up to scratch' and its often consistency & confidence that is the main problem.

Other one, compounding the above:-

2/ Putting on a 'show' for the examiner

We all do it... "Oh scary man with clip-board for personality behind me!.... I have to impress him! What should I do, what SHOULD I DO!"

Over thinking, trying too hard, and doing stuff you wouldn't normally do if you were just out for a bimble.....

Result? Examiner doesn't see how you really ride, see's lack of confidence and obvious 'show' trying to do stuff you think will impress him..... hence HE doesn't get warm feeling you are up to the mark.


How confident are YOU that you ought to pass?

And, how much of a show have you put on each time?

Come on, I dgas either way, but fact that you are counting white line gaps suggests that you are overtly TRYING to put the bike where you THINK he wants to see it, rather than just riding the bugger and dealing with whats around you........

How did you 'present' at test?

Examiners WILL make sausage skin judgements, not fair, but they only have 45mionutes to assess your rinding, and how you turn up, like for an interview gives them some clues what to look for on the road.

Turn up gibbering dropping paperwork, looking startled when they ask simple questions..... they will presume a lack of confidence before you begin..... laugh and joke and they'll think you are cocky, etc etc.

There's more to it than just following the highway code for half an hour and not killing any-one! As you have discovered.

BUT I suspect like many repeat fails, that the main problem is that you are just NOT giving them an HONEST ride, showing them what you can do.... you are trying to show them what you THINK they want you to show them you can do......

Lessons, get some test tips; but take them away and instill them into your riding as subconciouse discipline NOT choreography just for the examiner..... THEN get a test booked, after some miles doing exactly what he said and 'brushing up', and with a "Fuck it! I'm JUST going to ride it like I would if her weren't there" mind-set, RIDE it HONESTLY, and get an HONEST apraisal of your riding and PROBABLY a pass cert to go with it!
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Benno
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at test centres all over the country when I was searching for test dates. Also if you keep checking every day, cancellations WILL appear Very Happy
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psychodame
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

psychodame wrote:
I've got some notes that are drawings that I was given by my trainer, that show the turning positions for X roads and T junctions.

If anyone wants a copy of them I can email as a .pdf if you'd care to PM me an email addy.


1st lot sent out already Thumbs Up
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cimbian
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomGT wrote:


Fair enough if I was turning right and he pulled alongside to my right, but turning right and pulling up on my left Confused


Not really.

An example may be that the turning is partially obscured or has possibly large vehicles that turn left into the road you are coming out of. In this case it is possible to be TOO FAR to the right where you may not be seen or may be hit by a vehicle with a large turning circle. Here the examiner would come alongside to your left.

There is, allegedly, just such a junction on one of the test routes from Lee-on-the-Solent and I was advised of this by my instructor.

Maybe you should drop into a bike shops or two and sound them out on known good instructors (I know I was recommended mine by two shops, neither of whom he buys bikes from).

Going it alone may seem the cheap option but, frankly, this has not panned-out for you.

Can you post the junction name so we can Google it? It might just help you. Smile
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 18 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its my belief that the examiner pretty much knows by 10 minutes into the test if youre riding is up to scratch and if hes going to pass you, the rest of the test is then a formality unless you make a serious error.

If he decides he doesnt think youre good enough, he will simply work backwards and find the minors where you went wrong and nit pick if he has to to get enough marks down to fail you.

This is why its so important to not only ride safe, but with confidence and then youre giving the examiner little/ no excuses to fail you.

Hence you say on 2 occasions when you failed, he couldnt elaborate on your failings....hed basically decided early on that your riding wasnt what he'd deem a pass so was looking for any old slight thing to mark you down on.
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TomGT
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
stuff


You make an interesting point, on my first Mod 2 I rode as I normally would, only normally was 40 down a 30 road, and that was the only error I got overall.

Regarding putting on a show, I did do a few things I wouldn't normally like those shitty four point checks (left lifesaver, left mirror, right mirror, right lifesaver) which I never do. I got a minor for hesitation which he put down to nerves, but in reality I'd taken any safe gap going into a roundabout.

cimbian wrote:
Can you post the junction name so we can Google it? It might just help you. Smile


Sadly no, I really don't know where it was, some back road near Farnborough North Station Confused

This has given me a fair bit to think about, I may rebook at a different centre though Smile
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 03:41 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomGT wrote:
This has given me a fair bit to think about, I may rebook at a different centre though Smile


Yup, and if you put on the same show of cockyness, in one area, nervouseness in another, and are doing stuff that's obviously not 'natural' or normalised, trying to put on a show... you'll probably fail a fifth time....

Rear Observations & shoulder checks, I dont know what you are doing, when you talk about 4-point obs.... not something I have ever tought, where did you get that idea from?

Left mirror lefts life saver, right mirror right life saver? What when?

I dont like the 'terminology'; 'life-saver' & 'Shoulder-Check'.... clumsy people aren't sure which is which or when to use it.....

Helpful little Mantra:-

Rear Observation - BEFORE you do anything
3/4 Check - WHEN you are doing something....

Rear obs is full behind look; 3/4 check is into the dead zone on your flanks, looking for changes to what was behind when you looked.

Mirrors?!?! DONT rely on them!

And if you were trying to do rear-obs, mirror checks and blind spot checks to cover all bases, every time, before and during... no I'm not surprised you were failed, becouse thats exactly the sort of thing that says "I dont know what I'm Doing - but I know examiners like to see me moving my head a lot"

So, yeah, agree with the examiner to some degree... learn where and when you should be doing proper observations, rear & 3/4, and drill it into your riding so you ARE doing them all the fucking time, every fucking ride......

They aren't there JUST to make an examiner happy, or justify instructors fees, they are there so that you are looking in the right place at the right time for stuff that will try and KILL YOU!

Have you had any lessons?

Or is this stuff you have just tried to pick up from You Tube clips & forums? Becouse if teh latter, it ent worked.

You do need to know this kind of stuff properly, and you do need to be using it ALL the time, and the examiner doesn't want to see an am-dram re-play of other am-dram You-tube antics when you ride he wants to see you riding PROPERLY.......

Tests to make sure you are safe, not just to get £75 out of you and make you sweat a bit!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: Despairing Over Mod 2 Reply with quote

TomGT wrote:
I really don't know where I went wrong, I asked him how it constituted a serious fault, but he didn't really answer, suggesting only training to 'brush up' on my skills.

Then I'd go ahead and assume that he's a cunt who fails everyone who hasn't come in via his favoured training schools.

Didn't we already suggest that you do the test elsewhere, so that you wouldn't (mis)use your local knowledge to do the "real world right" / "on test wrong" thing at junctions?

Do you have any local bikers who can go for a ride with you and advise?

Or... urgh... have you considered paying the local instructor cabal their tithe for an evaluation?
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: reply Reply with quote

michel317 wrote:
i think all automobile should be test firstly and then come in market


Que?
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate seeing threads like this. Thumbs Down I've only got 1 shot at each test really Neutral

I can't imagine how frustrating that must be.

Have you had any lessons or anything?

I think you should still try and get the test done rather than staying on a 125 Thumbs Up How old are you?

Thumbs Up
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wots
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

psychodame wrote:
I've got some notes that are drawings that I was given by my trainer, that show the turning positions for X roads and T junctions.

If anyone wants a copy of them I can email as a .pdf if you'd care to PM me an email addy.


Thanks for sending these through, I will have a look later.
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RapidTrip
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing all these posts of people failing the tests is slightly putting me off taking mine. I could never afford to keep paying for them all. I assume that plenty of training and keeping calm is the best way to pass first time?
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psychodame
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 19 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that

KEEP CALM
AND
RIDE ON

Might be a good way to go Cool
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