Unpleasant surprise

[LordShaftesbu...]

So I came home today to find this sitting on the doormat:

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/lastscan3.jpg

Yes I did forget to tax it last year (it's taxed now), but what pisses me off is that this is the first I've heard of any penalty. As I understand it the DVLA usually issues a £40 penalty and ratchets it up to £80 if you don't pay within a certain time frame.

How can somone pay a penalty they haven't been told about?

Is it worth arguing with them to see if I can get away with paying just the £40?

[G]

"Commence recovery proceedings", is legal talk for "send you a few letters".

Most people file these in the bin.

And are you sure you didn't feel in a SORN form and send it to the DVLA? If you did, it'd be up to the DVLA to prove you didn't send it.

[keggyhander]

A private clamping firm is going to clamp your vehicle on your own property??

It would be worth it for the sheer lulz as the power tools and lump hammers were brought into play.

I don't think that letter has been thought through at all.

[Rogerborg]

When did you tax it? They only have 6 months from the (last) date of the offence to put it before a court. Sorry, I don't have the references to hand, stinkwheel dug them up last time this came up.

My personal view (and I'm sitting on 2 x £100 demands for 'uninsured + not SORNED') is that ignoring it is probably the best policy. If you ever get a court summons, that's the time to deal with it.

Lulz at the "County Court Judgement". You're in Dundee, right? That'd be the Sheriff Court then.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[LordShaftesbu...]

[ajbsmirnoff]

Wasn't wheelclamping associated with a demand for money made illegal in Scotland ?

[nowhere.elysium]

Also, something I learned from my recent bad experience with the DVLA's subsidiary minions; put it under a secured cover. Provided they can't see anything that identifies it as your vehicle, they can't touch it. Before people shout me down; that's from the DVLA's local contracted clamping firm - they were significantly more helpful than those dozy taff mongtards that claim to be a necessary agency.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[kerr]

[sickpup]

[Rogerborg]

[sickpup]

[LordShaftesbu...]

Right, so if I ignore it I could eventually be taken to court, and unless I want to lie in court about sending the SORN, I have to pay up. £40 I can stomach but I don't see why I should pay the £80 when I wasn't informed of the payment deadline.

[G]

[Rogerborg]

I'd be astonished if a Sheriff considered that any debt exists. Worst case, you're told to pay the debt, which will cost them more to collect than they'll receive.

Anyway, at this stage, it's just another random demand for payment, the time to take it seriously is when you receive a court summons.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[LordShaftesbu...]

[LordShaftesbu...]

[Kickstart]

Hi

What the DVLA are doing is akin to me (or any other random person) saying "Doug97, you owe me £80 and I will take you to court to get my money".

The £80 is a bribe they offer to take in exchange for not taking you to court for failing to declare SORN / tax the bike. As you have not agreed to this I can't see how this is a debt that can be enforced against you but others are better qualified to comment on this. Think they have quite a few years to take a case to court to recover a debt, but they would need to prove that the debt exists

If they did take you to court for the actual offence (which from memory carries a potential £1000 fine, but the DVLA don't get any of the fine) then I think that is when the 6 month time limit comes into play.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[stinkwheel]

Worst case:

They take you to court and you are ordered to pay the £80.

If you then do so at that point, that's an end of the matter. A CCJ only appears on your credit record if you don't pay it within the allotted timescale.

They sometimes manage to get your phone number and start pestering you. You need to tell them firmly to either take you to court or stfu to get rid of them.

Yes, the 6 month thing is for prosecuting you for failure to declare SORN, not debt recovery.

So yeah. Worst case you land up paying the £80. Best case you land up paying nothing.

The clamping thing is a deliberate misrepresentation of the law. You can be clamped or fined £1000 for having an untaxed vehicle on the road. They cannot clamp you or fine you £1000 for failing to pay the DVLA £80.

In fact this one has probably overstepped the boundry of implication and turned into outright dishonesty. They usually say something like "Using a vehicle on the road without a valid tax disc can result in your vehicle being clamped and a release fee of over £1000 charged." (which is true, even in Scotland) then leave you to imply that law applies in this case.

To outright state failure to pay an alleged £80 civil debt to the DVLAs 3rd party recovery company can result in your vehicle being clamped is patently untrue. To the point it may be worth reporting this company to the Office of Fair Trading for lying about the law in an attempt to get money out of you.

https://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/cca/debt-collection

Code of practice for letters
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[LordShaftesbu...]

[stinkwheel]

[Marcg868]

Just tell them to prove you didn't tax or SORN it. They won't be able to prove it and will demand you pay them money. Just ignore them, typical DCA numpties.
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JACK, MISS YOU LOADS YOU LEGEND.

[0l0dom0l0]

If it was me, I would ignore it.

If they sent you a Court Summons, then get all your stuff ready.

Ask them to prove you never sent the sorn off which they can't.

Tell them to prove they sent the letters to your house and gave you ample warning to pay the initial fine which you didn't have option of doing because you didn't receive the letter.

The behaviour of the DVLA is actually criminal. I'm pretty sure watchdog did something on it not long back about someone sending off the SORN and the DVLA not receiving it who were then in exactly the same boat as you. I'll have a look and see if I can find it.
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CBT Passed: 30/08/2009, Theory Passed: 31/08/2010, Mod 1 Passed: 6/9/2010, Mod 2 Passed: 13/09/2010. Restriction ended 13/09/2012.

Bikes: 2007 Derbi GPR 50, 1998 Yamaha Fazer 600 (written off), 2002 Yamaha Fazer 600, 1994 CBR 600F, 2003 Triumph Daytona 600, Kawasaki ZX6R J1.....Current: 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 1998 Suzuki TL1000R and a Honda VFR 400 NC30.

[0l0dom0l0]

Taken from here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2011/09/sorn.html

[cb1rocket]

and am I right in thinking in the past you don''t even need proof to say you posted it, just merely state the fact in court that you did post it and its up to them to prove you didn't?

I remember this being talked before on here something along the lines of the Interpretation Act.