Ultrasonic Carb Cleaning

[Bofh5]

Hi all
After trawling through many threads about the virtues of this i'm still not sure.

Bike is a 95 CBR600 and to my knowledge has never had any carb work done.

Sometimes when i open the throttle there is a delay before the power kicks in. Only a second but enough to cause concern.
The second thing is when i start the engine when its warm it won't rev for 30 seconds or so. Full throttle just keeps it going and if i close the throttle the engine dies.

So i'm wondering if its time to get the carbs deep cleaned or if there is something else that is causing this ?

Checked the plugs and they look ok after a run.

Any ideas on how much it will cost to get this done professionally ?

Thanks
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(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[nowhere.elysium]

'Allo stranger.

Last time I had a set of carbs cleaned, it cost me £60 and it was done by John at 'I cleenz macheenz', in London.

Obvious questions first; is your air filter OK, have the carbs been balanced, is there an inline fuel filter?
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Bofh5]

yes its been a while. I really must get out more .
Bit of a trip for me though these days...

anyhoo

Air filter should be fine as i replaced it with a K & N last year.
Not sure if there is a fuel filter i think it just goes straight to the pump.
Not had any work done on the carbs since i've owned her so know idea if they have ever been balanced.

I don't want to throw money away getting them cleaned if there is a better way.
Bonny had a thread on here years ago where he was told all sorts of conflicting info so i wanted to try and clarify the best way.

Cheers
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[nowhere.elysium]

When it's warm enough to idle without choke, how does it sound? Does it hunt, or is it stable?
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Bofh5]

Yes shes fine when warmed up on tickover.
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[nowhere.elysium]

When it hesitates, are you whacking the throttle right open, or rolling it on gradually?

God, this is sounding like a weird biker variant on Guess Who, isn't it?
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Bofh5]

whacking it open.

Fast pull away from junction lights etc and sometimes there is that heart stopping moment of nothing before the engine revs.

Rolling on is ok to add to our game of who is it
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[Timmeh]

F3s should (and must) have an inline fuel-filter between tank and pump.

If yours hasn't, someone might have bodged it as they were too tight to buy a new one.

The pump runs constantly at the same speed, no cleverness there, so the only thing stopping it flooding the engine is the floats. The filter does dampen the pressure down a bit, but not much.

If one or more floats are leaking then you might experience bog-down off idle.

Having said that, my CBR would, at times, do exactly what yours is doing, once most scarily on the A1 trying to overtake a lorry, but I put it down to the quirks of the engine.

I really wouldn't bother with an ultrasonic job on these carbs, they are big, clunky, well-built and you can do just a good a job with an air line.


____________________
GSXR400 x2 | '94 RVF400 | '93 TZR125 4DL (again)
20:22:30 BLUEX5: i would love to be forced to undergo a**l plugging with different sizes
20:48:18 Temeluchus: comp you hunk of smouldering homos3x you

[LongJohn22]

If you've changed the air filters it might be a good idea to check the jetting.

[G]

Easy to clean all the removable jets yourself and probably end up with a fair bit better job.

Press to your lips and exhale in a hard burst, so it 'whistles' through the jet.
On the emulsion tube you may need to cover some holes and the end so the other holes get a good air pressure.

[lihp]

Did you adjust your jetting when you changed to a K&N Filter?
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covent.gardens: lihp is my most favourite member ever

[uberkron]

Ultra sonic bath? Ive had to dissasemble them completely before ultrasonic cleaning due to it being too effective in the past. The float needle in a carb uses force multiplying leverage to close that hole, a filter to dampen pumping is bs.

Normal gravity fed carbs need at least 30psi fed to them to overcome the float.

Start with normal trouble shooting. Stabbing in the dark is fun, but documentation exists to help the end user.

Start with what is not standard, understand the influences from these.
Continue with needle height, and moving parts subject to wear,
Then check coil output etcetera.

Ive witnessed people effing around with dissasembly and cleaning of a carb when the fault was a perished intake manifold gasket.

Taking a carb apart and vibrating it should be a last resort. It is a source of introduced problems that disguise the real ones.

The only carburettors ive seen that were actually in need of ultrasonic cleaning came from vehicles left with bonnet up and no air cleaner for a while. Petrol keeps them clean normally, and regular bowl draining will remove sediment.

They were designed by clever people, and used by people that think no fuel filter is a cause of flooding. That is freakin hilarious.
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i ride a zip 50 2smoke. It overtakes a hundred times a day.

[StevenF]

I was thinking about cleaning the carbs on my F2 as its been sitting for 12 months unused. It's more involved than anything I've attempted before, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread
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My Project - Honda CBR 600 F2/FM

[Bofh5]

Wow thanks for all the replies i've got a lot more to go on now

Will have to double check the fuel filter. It has been a while since i looked so can't remember if there is one.

Probably best to start by taking the bowl off and seeing what state its in. I doubt they have ever been off so could be nearly 20 years of gunk in there.

I'll try cleaning the jets myself first and see how that goes.

The K&N filter was a direct replacement for the original one just re-useable so didn't think about adjusting jetting.

Is it possible to remove the jets with carbs in the frame or will they need to come off ?

Do the jets and needle wear enough to think of replacing them on the CBR ?

I don't want to waste money for no reason when doing it myself will be just as good.

Looks like i've got my evenings and weekends booked up for a while.

Cheers all
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[G]

It's going to be best to get the carbs off.
On dirt bikes they're often designed to be spun around and done in-situ, but it's going to be much easier to get them off on your bike.

[Nexus Icon]

If you still fancy an ultrasonic bath they were sub £20 in Aldi at the weekend.
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[Bofh5]

think i'll do it manually for now.
going to start by taking a look in the bowls to see how much muck is in there.
not going back on the road until april so have a little time to play.
might need to invest in a heater for the shed though...
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[StevenF]

[Bofh5]

I'll be taking plenty of photos so i remember where all the bits go as i have a crap memory.

Will post my findings or lack of

Got to repair a crack in the rear side fairing near the fuel tap first then i'll get started.
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[Bofh5]

Just had a quick look at mr haynes and it mentions getting a carb maintenance kit with seals and gaskets.

Is this really needed or can i reuse the old ones ?
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[Timmeh]

You only need to replace the bowl seals if they are leaking or look perished. The carbs don't have any o-rings inside them.

I didn't have to replace much when I bought my non-running CBR, took the carbs to bits, blew it all out, and refitted with new jubilee clips as the old ones had corroded and weren't tightening up. The only other thing I did replace was the fuel filter and give it some new spark plugs as the old ones were shagged (it had been sat under a tree for a few years)

The engine didn't give me any trouble again and happily did 30,000 more miles before I sold it.


____________________
GSXR400 x2 | '94 RVF400 | '93 TZR125 4DL (again)
20:22:30 BLUEX5: i would love to be forced to undergo a**l plugging with different sizes
20:48:18 Temeluchus: comp you hunk of smouldering homos3x you

[Bofh5]

wheres is the fuel filter ?
Haynes doesn't show it and barely mentions it.

Thanks
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[StevenF]

[Bofh5]

yes it kind of odd.
in the haynes manual it mentions in the carb bit about checking the fuel filter first along with some other stuff.
but looking in the index under fuel filter shows nothing.
i can only assume its built into the tank maybe.

i also noticed on the F3 S model you have to drain the coolant to get the carbs off.

Didn't have to do that on F2.
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[Timmeh]

Trusay; f3 carbs have a heater circuit. IIRC fuel filter is on lhs of bike just below and behind of the fuel switch.
____________________
GSXR400 x2 | '94 RVF400 | '93 TZR125 4DL (again)
20:22:30 BLUEX5: i would love to be forced to undergo a**l plugging with different sizes
20:48:18 Temeluchus: comp you hunk of smouldering homos3x you