|
|
| Author |
Message |
| barneyr22 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
barneyr22
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Karma : 
|
 Posted: 21:44 - 17 Sep 2013  Post subject: 35kw restriction |
 |
|
Does anyone know where i can get a 35kw (46.6 bhp) restrictor kit for a honda cbr600rr 54 plate? Can only find them in germany and dont quite understand  OR does anyone know of any other way to restrict it to 35kw? ... heard of throttle restriction but dont know how it works or how to go about getting it put on. Please help!!
Many thanks
____________________
Barney |
|
| Back to top |
  |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :  
|
| Posted: 22:35 - 17 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
I suspect you cant get one, because they sell them to make bikes A2 licence catagory complient.
CBR600RR CANNOT be made A2 complient. A2 restrictions say a bike up to 35Kw or restricted down to 35Kw from a standard machine making no more than 2x restricted power.
CBR600RR makes more than 70Kw as standard ergo cannot be restricted, therefore little point making restrictor kits for them.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| shaanaleem92 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
shaanaleem92
Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
|
Posted: 00:49 - 18 Sep 2013  Post subject: |
|
|
| shaanaleem92 wrote: | | Teflon-Mike wrote: | I suspect you cant get one, because they sell them to make bikes A2 licence catagory complient.
CBR600RR CANNOT be made A2 complient. A2 restrictions say a bike up to 35Kw or restricted down to 35Kw from a standard machine making no more than 2x restricted power.
CBR600RR makes more than 70Kw as standard ergo cannot be restricted, therefore little point making restrictor kits for them. |
Unless they passed before the New rules kicked in, in January this year. Which I suppose Is possible,
Then again it wouldn't be 35kw if following old rules I think? Its should be restricted to 33hp (dunno what that is in kw, but think its less than the New 46.6bhp at 35kw)
Right? |
Yup. There would be no point in marketing a 35Kw restriction kit as 600RR cant be made 35Kw/45bhp A2 complient.
Might, restricting to 25Kw/33bhp be made complient with 'Restricted' licence entitlement, awarded prior to Jan this year.
And to save some searching; I did a review of specs a while back; as far as I'm aware, if you have an A2 licence, you can pretty much dismiss ideas of riding ANY sports 600 made this century; and most made since the class evolved in the mid 80's!
If it is 600cc, has four cylinders, water cooling; and a pointy fairing; odds are you cant ride it legally on an A2 licence.
You will be looking at twins, or tourers, or street-bikes... but even then; the less inspiring 'nakeds' like the Diversion or Bandit; FZ600 Fazer is boarderline depending on model year and who'se numbers you take; Hornet is pretty much off the menu; I think there is one model year variant that might qualify.
Sorts-Bikes? About the only things I found that might be made eligible by restriction was the very early, 1984 Kawasaki GPz600R and its successor the GPx600, which are just heavy enough to not to require restricting beneath 45bhp to meet power to weight limit; and have quoted power low enough that that restricted power is over half stock.
Early CBR600F 'Aero' the jelly-mold model... is on the boarder-line; depends who'se numbers you use, but most favorable I think give it 86bhp, you might squeek one. Likewise early Suzuki GSX-R600's; just heavy enough and just low enough on power depending on whose figures you choose, it 'may' be restrictable.
Suzuki RF600 isn't. Kawasaki ZZR600 isn't. Kawasaki ZX6R definitely isn't. Yamaha YZF-600 'Thundercat' isn't. R6 certainly isn't. Triumph TT600 isn't. Later Model CBR600FII's aren't, FIII's and definitely RR's aren't. Later model GSX-R600's aren't either.
If you have an A2 licence ans want a sports-bike; you are going to have to look at the modern generation of sportier commuter twins; the 250 Ninja or a restricted SV650, kind of thing, to get a more contemporary machine; or you are looking at older 500 twins, like the GPz500S or CB500, or the even older minefield of 90's Japanese home market 'Sports' 400's.
Licence limitations were set DELIBERATELY, where they were to stop, hamper or otherwise discourage new and younger riders from trying to jump straight onto modern sports-bikes and higher performance street-bikes.
And to be honest; you'll likely have more fun on a bike like a 250 Ninja that's un-restricted, or a GPZ500S that's only mildly restricted; and able to run pretty close to the edge of its performance envelope and not feel frustrated; than you would on a 600cc sports-bike, designed to go 150 miles an hour, with its balls lopped off, so you never get to let it stretch its legs! Things are designed to do one thing; go fast. Restrict'em? So they cant, why bother?
The modern sports 600 is a very refined and clinical bit of kit; it's designed to make going fast easy; consequently they offer very little rider feed-back until they are pushing the limits of their performance envelope; and just 'work' offering very little sense of satisfaction or reward for riding them unless you are right on the ragged edge.
Get on a bike like the GPz500? Well, the twin pot motor is rather lumpy, and you'll know when you are thrashing the thing; same with the handling; softer, less refined, built to a lower budget, it'll start getting 'entertaining' at the sort of velocities it can more easily achieve; and it will have a much wider margin in that 'ragged edge' before it chucks you in a hedge! Meanwhile... you'll have to work for your fast, and from that effort comes reward and rider satisfaction. So far better choice for a newby, all round, really.
Even on a pre-Jan 2013 25Kw/33bhp restricted licence.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Slacker24seve... |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Slacker24seve...
World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2010
Karma : 
|
| Posted: 07:49 - 18 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
Mike you always say this about 600 Supersports not giving feedback.... When did you last ride a 600 sportsbike or is that something you just plucked out of your arse? They give plenty of feedback.
I'd advise against one as a first bike and getting something softer and friendlier but they aren't the instruments of death you make them out to be.
____________________
Triumph Daytona 675 track bike + girlfriend's Honda Hornet 600
Selling a hack/winter bike for less than a grand? PM me.
Banger rallies are ace |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| shaanaleem92 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
shaanaleem92
Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 10:22 - 18 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
Pointy-plasticky bikes under 70kW and suitable to restrict down to 35kW (but be careful of the power-to-weight):
CBR400R
GSX-R400
ZXR400
GS500F (bang on 35kW natively)
SV650S with fairing lowers.
GPZ500S (middle fairing panels are available to fill the gap)
GSX650F
Ninja 250
Ninja 300
CBR500R
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| SteveZZR |
This post is not being displayed .
|
SteveZZR
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 13 Jul 2013
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| bren_9311 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
bren_9311
Traffic Copper
Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Karma : 
|
| Posted: 22:18 - 18 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
The op has to be trolling.
____________________
My opinion is neither copyrighted nor trademarked. If you like, I'll trade for one of yours.
Currently bikeless. 
Ps4- bren_9311 |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| SteveZZR |
This post is not being displayed .
|
SteveZZR
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 13 Jul 2013
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| P.addy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
P.addy
Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| lihp |
This post is not being displayed .
|
lihp
World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 16:08 - 19 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
| SteveZZR wrote: |
By that logic it's been deemed ok to have a 94bhp machine on an A2 then?
If they're choosing it by "what's ok to ride unrestricted" as the valid bikes for restriction, why not just put out a list of bikes people can ride on an A2 and stick to that?
My main issue with this is, you could have something like a Ducati 748 (94 paper horsepower but a metric fuckton of torque) which is like shit off a shiny shovel sports performance and handling but A2 valid, yet an all rounder and fairly docile when restricted / below 8000rpm ZZR 600 (which I found to be brilliant restricted) isn't allowed to be used.
What really takes the piss, as previously mentioned and I've now found a link https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=275331
Triumph make a Street Triple with a flashed ECU so it comes from the factory with a little bit less power (same bike and price!!) so it falls into this ridiculous category.
To me that is the same as restricting any bike you want - If you got an injected SV650 that was set to 47bhp and fitted a full power ECU it'd be full power. If you got this A2 Street Triple and fitted a full power ECU it'd be full power. If you fit the 47bhp ECU it's an A2 compliant machine. I really don't get why they picked 94bhp as an upper limit either? Why not 100bhp? Why not 90bhp? I think 100bhp and 700cc would've made more sense really as it'd eliminate the higher performance V-Twin's that people could kill kittens with unrestricted; but then it discriminates if someone wanted a cruiser which is generally lower power, lower RPM, higher CC.
Clearly needs more complex rules, governed by Torque and P:W ratio not a power limit.
Is there a bike weighing over 175kg with retarded amounts of Torque and under 95bhp? |
Torque is a function of power and rpm.
____________________
covent.gardens: lihp is my most favourite member ever |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| P.addy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
P.addy
Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 17:33 - 19 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
| SteveZZR wrote: | By that logic it's been deemed ok to have a 94bhp machine on an A2 then? |
No, they merely have looked for a way to limit how much scope cheats have to play with in the margins.
There's no real 'logic; to it.
I've always held that 'restrictions' are self defeating anyway; I mean; conscientious rider likely to respect restrictions, probably doesn't need restricting to begin with; rider who they try and save from themself by imposing restriuctions, is unlikely to respect them.
Man can drown in an inch of water reasoning; 125's can be as fast as any bike is allowed to go on UK roads; most motorcycle accidents happen under speed limits anyway...
Its like trying to tackle drunkeness by stopping the bars selling spirits, when beer will get folks drunk just as well if they are deturmined to!
| SteveZZR wrote: | why not just put out a list of bikes people can ride on an A2 and stick to that? |
Yeah... what they are trying to do, really, is steer newbs to bikes of a certain 'nature'... trouble is, bike's charecter or nature isn't something that can really be defined in vital statistics!
How close are the numbers for a ZZR600 to those of a GSX-R600? Yet, 'soft' all-round capable Zed falls outside restriction perameters; rather more 'hooligan' Gixxer might be restrictable.
And of course; there's always cheats.
When the UK MCI made a gentlements agreement with the DoT not to import any bike over 125bhp in the late 1980's, Yamaha put rubber restriction shrouds in the carb rubbers of the FZR1000EXUP. 140bhp bike was sold in the showrooms with a 'quoted' 125. Wip the carbs off, cut teh shrouds out with a scalpel. Full power, and Yamaha still honoured the warranty!
Manufacturers fudging the figures with alternative ECU Maps and the numbers they declare to be 'Standard'? It's Nothing new.
And its not great.
The 'Restrictions' are the legislators attempt to stop people being a bit 'Daft' on motorbikes..... the stuff they choose to target for 'restriction' is only notionally associated with the problem of safety they want to address, but practically all they can fiddle with to do 'something' that might help.
So, market reacts, finding more imaginative ways to 'cheat' the restrictions, proving them less effective than legislators hoped.... so they go back to the drawing board, and frame new even tighter legislation to curb the excesses of those that look for a work-around!
Which thems that would respect the restrictions to begin with... get lammed with, and probably have thier biking needlessly impedimented... while thems that need the restrictions, and don't respect them, dont respect and look for newer and more imaginative work-arounds... and so the cycle continues, in ever decreasing circles!
| SteveZZR wrote: | Clearly needs more complex rules, governed by Torque and P:W ratio not a power limit. |
Well, A2 says 35Kw, 0.2Kw/Kg and restricted power >2x original spec power... its already got power to weight, and its already got complicated convalutions!
What they OUGHT to do, is;
1/ Get rid of unsupervised 125 L-Plating.
2/ Get rid of the fucking DAS rules and dopey age limits.
Theres bog all 'real' corrolation between maturity and age. And DAS pandering to the impatient, 'want it all here and now; just tell me how much' rider, is breeding riders with the 'wrong' attitude to begin with; and giving them instant access to the machines they want to discourage!
And regs are ignoring their own evidence for the regs!
Biggest risk groups in the stats are L-Platers. There are more of them and lacking experience they tend to crash most. But while perpetual L-Plating is maintained; there's nothing being done to improve rider standards amongst them!
Rather ironic then to start imposing 'restrictions' on those riders who HAVE made the grade and proved their competence who are rather less at risk!
Except that while L-Platers crash most often; DAS newbs with less than three years experience, are the most likely to be Killed-Seriousely-Injured!
THEY actually are the ones who might be 'saved' by performace limitations! Yet, they are being given ride what you like, unrestriced licences for doing a three day crash course, and thinking that makes them competant enough to handle an R1!
The tiered licence does have some good and reasonable reasoning behind it... but way its been framed into legislation is a farse!
Way to actually make a difference would be to encourage riders to gain competance and experience and a 'sensible' attitude, following a motorcycling 'aprenticeship', irrespective of 'age'.
Make the CBT a little more rigerouse; include a 'Verbal' theory in the class-room element, and 'practical' Hazard Perception test; maybe make it a two-day course; hand out A1 licences upon submission of a DL196
Want more than a 125? Then an A2, licence; Compulsary Training course, say six modules of continual assessement, like CBT Road Element; covering specific areas of road riding. Instructor signs off student, and when the student has enough module passes; applies for a DSA assessement ride; pass that; gets A2 licence. Perhaps with slightly better A2 licence restrictions; something simpler... say... 500cc and 60bhp. 'as standard' no post show-room restrictions.
Want more than that? More training, more modules, Another assessement ride. Perhaps twice as many though. Go through that; get A3, but not quite a full unrestricted ride what you like licence; lets say 1000cc, 100bhp, more than 200Kg, 'as standard' no post show-room mods or restrictions.
Want to ride anything else? More training, more modules, another assessement ride. Possibly even on the bike you WANT to ride! As some other country's licencing / taxing system. You want a new bike; you have to take it to licence office within ten days, and show them you can ride the fucker!
No cheats, no shortcuts, work your way up, at whatever pace you want, whatever age you are.
BUT; political. They don't do what's 'Sensible' they do what they can get away with!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Copycat73 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Copycat73
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma : 
|
Posted: 18:07 - 19 Sep 2013  Post subject: |
|
|
@ Teflon-Mike
you need to get out more ... 
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| J.M. |
This post is not being displayed .
|
J.M.
World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Copycat73 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Copycat73
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| barneyr22 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
barneyr22
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 02:07 - 21 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
cheers guys this has helped a lot ... actually have some direction now in finding another bike!! 
many thanks
barney
____________________
Barney |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| weasley |
This post is not being displayed .
|
weasley
World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Slacker24seve... |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Slacker24seve...
World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2010
Karma :
|
| Posted: 08:58 - 21 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
|
|
All that stuff by Mike and he still ignored my question about his experience of modern 600s.
Any danger of an answer Mike? You write a lot about this topic but some of it sounds like rubbish. What modern 600 sportsbikes have you actually been on to know that they give no feedback?
____________________
Triumph Daytona 675 track bike + girlfriend's Honda Hornet 600
Selling a hack/winter bike for less than a grand? PM me.
Banger rallies are ace |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Copycat73 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Copycat73
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Slacker24seve... |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Slacker24seve...
World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2010
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Teflon-Mike |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| P.addy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
P.addy
Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :
|
Posted: 06:57 - 23 Sep 2013  Post subject: |
|
|
Ignoring it again, he hasn't ridden anything modern anyway so its not worth the hassle.  |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 33 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|
Help & FAQs
Search BCF
Members
Groups
Events Calendar
rating
rating