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CG125 Clutch Plates

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stuarthouston
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Joined: 31 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 02 May 2013    Post subject: CG125 Clutch Plates Reply with quote
Evening all,

I'm looking to replace the slippy clutch on my CG and looking for suggestions. Essentially, I'm wondering whether it's worth spending that wee bit extra on something like an EBC clutch and springs (£37 from WeMoto) or should I just be looking for something cheap 'n' cheerful? (WeMoto do a Gecko clutch + springs for £25) There are even cheaper options on eBay, but I can't help think they'll be a false economy.

Any words of wisdom gratefully received.

Thanks,
Stuart
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 02 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
EBC.

In most jobs that are a cnut to do the best option is to fit the best to reduce the chance of early failure.

Best engineering practice.
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
EBC.

In most jobs that are a cnut to do the best option is to fit the best to reduce the chance of early failure.

Best engineering practice.


Well, that seems definitive. Thanks! Shall put one on order and get it fitted up next week! Thumbs Up
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Walloper wrote:
EBC.

In most jobs that are a cnut to do the best option is to fit the best to reduce the chance of early failure.

Best engineering practice.


Well, that seems definitive. Thanks! Shall put one on order and get it fitted up next week! Thumbs Up


Go easy on the new clutch linings. Let them bed-in for about a hundred miles. No heavy hill starts or hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street. Smile

Oil the plates and discs before assembly as they tend to soak up oil and stick when assembled. That can present a problem when setting up adjustment.

Clean engine oil. Change the oil. AND CLEAN OUT THE FECKIN' SCREEN TOO. Smile
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:


Go easy on the new clutch linings. Let them bed-in for about a hundred miles. No heavy hill starts or hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street. Smile

Oil the plates and discs before assembly as they tend to soak up oil and stick when assembled. That can present a problem when setting up adjustment.

Clean engine oil. Change the oil. AND CLEAN OUT THE FECKIN' SCREEN TOO. Smile


Hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street? I should be so lucky! Laughing

I've read that you should leave them to soak in oil overnight, yeah. Does that go for the steel plates as well as the friction ones? Is it worth cleaning up the steel plates with anything before they go back in? Again, I've read that a going over with really fine wet & dry isn't a bad idea?

Likewise, by the pictures in Haynes, it looks like the centrifugal oil filter sits slightly in front of the clutch. So, as it has to be dismantled and removed in order to get the clutch out, it'll get a good clean out in the process. Thumbs Up
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Walloper wrote:


Go easy on the new clutch linings. Let them bed-in for about a hundred miles. No heavy hill starts or hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street. Smile

Oil the plates and discs before assembly as they tend to soak up oil and stick when assembled. That can present a problem when setting up adjustment.

Clean engine oil. Change the oil. AND CLEAN OUT THE FECKIN' SCREEN TOO. Smile


Hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street? I should be so lucky! Laughing

I've read that you should leave them to soak in oil overnight, yeah. Does that go for the steel plates as well as the friction ones? Is it worth cleaning up the steel plates with anything before they go back in? Again, I've read that a going over with really fine wet & dry isn't a bad idea?

Likewise, by the pictures in Haynes, it looks like the centrifugal oil filter sits slightly in front of the clutch. So, as it has to be dismantled and removed in order to get the clutch out, it'll get a good clean out in the process. Thumbs Up


I'm not certain but the 'friction' plates could be 'coated' with sintered material. Sintered Iron, Bronze or similar. Some friction material is rubber based and treated to resist oil, heat, wear and such.

Soaking the friction plates allows time for oil to fill the micro-porous surfaces.
The oil is used mainly to carry heat away from the clutch. Obviously there is no need for lubrication between drive and driven surfaces via little grooves cut/cast into the friction material.
When engaged the oil is squeezed out from between the plates but sits in the pores. The friction material can still grip the steel plates in normal conditions and transmit full engine torque to the gearbox.

As the clutch plates wear the grooves/channels which radiate from the friction plate surfaces become shallower so oil cannot escape as easily which can allow the clutch to slip.
If the clutch slips it makes more heat, more heat can overcome clutch cooling and the friction material and or the steel plates get damaged.

Overloading a 'worn' clutch will accelerate damage. Smile

There is a world wide debate on whether car engine oil is suitable for bikes. I would never use it as I could not be certain the lubricant modifiers in car oil will not harm the friction material.

For the sake of a wee bit more £s I stick to dedicated Bike Engine oil.

True story bro.
I have personnel experience of serious damage (millions of £/$) to off-road haul truck transmission and braking systems when engine oil was used (as OEM recommendation). The engine oil additives coated the friction material and caused 'partial' slip (only a few degrees) which eventually led to complete early hour failures world wide.
The remedy was a change to dedicated brake/transmission oil. Same grade of oil as engines use but minus the friction additives/improvers.
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Walloper wrote:


Go easy on the new clutch linings. Let them bed-in for about a hundred miles. No heavy hill starts or hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street. Smile

Oil the plates and discs before assembly as they tend to soak up oil and stick when assembled. That can present a problem when setting up adjustment.

Clean engine oil. Change the oil. AND CLEAN OUT THE FECKIN' SCREEN TOO. Smile


Hoi-ing wheelies up the High Street? I should be so lucky! Laughing

I've read that you should leave them to soak in oil overnight, yeah. Does that go for the steel plates as well as the friction ones? Is it worth cleaning up the steel plates with anything before they go back in? Again, I've read that a going over with really fine wet & dry isn't a bad idea?

Likewise, by the pictures in Haynes, it looks like the centrifugal oil filter sits slightly in front of the clutch. So, as it has to be dismantled and removed in order to get the clutch out, it'll get a good clean out in the process. Thumbs Up
there is also an oil filter located just behind the sump plug that needs cleaned , this is reusable.
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You will need a special tool to remove the centrifugal oil filter you CAN make one it's not difficult but will cost a socket. Drop the engine oil into a pan and leave the plates in there overnight this is a very simple job cg's are very easy to work on make sure you have a new gasket and if you slightly line the gasket with grease you should be able to use it again next time.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 03 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
DMCpro wrote:
You will need a special tool to remove the centrifugal oil filter you CAN make one it's not difficult but will cost a socket. Drop the engine oil into a pan and leave the plates in there overnight this is a very simple job cg's are very easy to work on make sure you have a new gasket and if you slightly line the gasket with grease you should be able to use it again next time.


Drop the plates into Fresh Oil of course.... Smile

No point in soaking them in used oil. Entirely goes against responsible maintenance technique.

As you will be changing the oil just put a half cup of new oil in a cut open gallon container/ice cream tub
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 00:59 - 04 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Walloper: Yeah. It's been a little bit ropey for a couple of months now, but only when I went on a little country run the other week did I notice how bad it's gotten! Would rather get it sorted before the miles rack up over the summer. I've got 4l of a 5l bottle of oil left which was bought last service and matched up with all the specs in the book, so hopefully it'll be okay with the new clutch. Not bike specific stuff, but not posh stuff with lots of additives either. As you say, it's debatable whether it causes accelerated wear/slip. On something more powerful than a CG, I'd probably be more inclined to pay the extra...

@moonzoomer: Yes there is. Thumbs Up And by the crud that was stuck in it last time I changed the oil, the centrifugal one is due a cleaning! Shocked

@DMCpro: Ordered one last week. Thumbs Up Sadly, it's coming from China, so will probably be the biggest delay in getting the job done! Laughing Glad it's a straightforward task though!

Thanks for all the advice, gents. Much obliged to you all!
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 01:13 - 04 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I highly recommend EBC plates and springs they are the best of best
You really feel the difference.
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 12 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Finally got all the bits together to do this yesterday, got to the stage of removing the centrifugal oil filter cap, and one of the screws is so chewed that I can't get any purchase on it at all. If I just drill the bugger out, will there be enough of a stump left to get vice grips on to to remove the rest?

These screws feel like they are made of cheese. Gah! Thumbs Down
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 01:48 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Finally got all the bits together to do this yesterday, got to the stage of removing the centrifugal oil filter cap, and one of the screws is so chewed that I can't get any purchase on it at all. If I just drill the bugger out, will there be enough of a stump left to get vice grips on to to remove the rest?

These screws feel like they are made of cheese. Gah! Thumbs Down


Your best bet will be to use an impact driver if you really still can't do it drill a small whole through the centre and use an easy out
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humanbeing
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PostPosted: 03:54 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnPktdVsIyU You need the impact driver from day 1.
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UK Stock: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171031879516
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tomh
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just drill through the center of the screw until the head pops off which will leave enough thread behind to remove it (I just unscrewed that bit with my fingers)

I've managed to get all three out before using plus gas and a brand new screwdriver bit. You need to make sure your putting all your weight on the screwdriver so it doesn't slip.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
humanbeing wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnPktdVsIyU You need the impact driver from day 1.
-
UK Stock: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171031879516


I hate watching/listening to folk to tap, tap then hit something with a hammer. Just fcaking HIT the facking thing... Mad
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks chaps. Shall have a go at it today armed with a drill. My patience wore out with it last night and I knew, if I kept going, I was just going to break something. Laughing

All three screws were pretty chewed when I took the clutch cover off. Two of them came with a bit of persuasion, but the third was beyond saving. Baffles me why people put fixings back that are worn to that extent! At least I know the oil spinner has been cleaned in the past, though! Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Thanks chaps. Shall have a go at it today armed with a drill. My patience wore out with it last night and I knew, if I kept going, I was just going to break something. Laughing

All three screws were pretty chewed when I took the clutch cover off. Two of them came with a bit of persuasion, but the third was beyond saving. Baffles me why people put fixings back that are worn to that extent! At least I know the oil spinner has been cleaned in the past, though! Rolling Eyes


People put auld shite back on as they don't have new shite to replace it with or don't know they should or don't care if the do or don't or dont put all the bolts back etc. etc. etc.

Use a bit of oil on the bolts you put back and buy new bolts off the dealer if you don't want the next owner to bad mouth the last owner on a world wide forum. Smile

I had to fit a new flywheel and clutch to my car last year. I bought the new ny-lock bolts and new nuts from BMW to be used to fit the new flywheel and clutch and the drive shaft and the gearbox mounts. As per OEM recommendation. I put the bag of bolts in the box with the new clutch and flywheel. The hardware only cost me £15... When I collected the car the new hardware was still in the boot in the BMW parts bag. The dopey fuker who fitted didn't know the bolts should be replaced. Rolling Eyes
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." (walloper 2013)
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 13 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Finished putting it back together this evening. Spent a mighty £2.55 on new screws for the spinner! Laughing Ended up drilling a 4mm well in to the chewed screwhead and tapping a T27 Torx bit in to it to unscrew it. Worked a treat!

Happy to report that the EBC clutch and springs are great. Stuck a new cable on as well for good measure and it all feels far happier than before, so thanks to all for the recommendations/tips! Karma
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 14 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Finished putting it back together this evening. Spent a mighty £2.55 on new screws for the spinner! Laughing Ended up drilling a 4mm well in to the chewed screwhead and tapping a T27 Torx bit in to it to unscrew it. Worked a treat!

Happy to report that the EBC clutch and springs are great. Stuck a new cable on as well for good measure and it all feels far happier than before, so thanks to all for the recommendations/tips! Karma


Well done Sir, I think I can speak for everyone here and say that the rest of the forum will feel a sense of 'achievement' over this.
Very Happy
Have some Karma
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stuarthouston
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 14 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:

Well done Sir, I think I can speak for everyone here and say that the rest of the forum will feel a sense of 'achievement' over this.
Very Happy
Have some Karma


Thumbs Up Huzzah! It is a nice feeling when things go to plan! Now that the bike's fixed, need to swap a wishbone and adjust the handbrake on the car ready for re-MOT on Monday. Piece of cake, right? Laughing
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 14 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Walloper wrote:

Well done Sir, I think I can speak for everyone here and say that the rest of the forum will feel a sense of 'achievement' over this.
Very Happy
Have some Karma


Thumbs Up Huzzah! It is a nice feeling when things go to plan! Now that the bike's fixed, need to swap a wishbone and adjust the handbrake on the car ready for re-MOT on Monday. Piece of cake, right? Laughing


Sorry.... what was that.... you're breaking up... shssssss..sssssss....

Very Happy
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DMCpro
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 15 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Walloper wrote:

Well done Sir, I think I can speak for everyone here and say that the rest of the forum will feel a sense of 'achievement' over this.
Very Happy
Have some Karma


Thumbs Up Huzzah! It is a nice feeling when things go to plan! Now that the bike's fixed, need to swap a wishbone and adjust the handbrake on the car ready for re-MOT on Monday. Piece of cake, right? Laughing


Lower suspension arm (wish bone) is a easy job aslong as you have the correct tools and knowledge adjusting a hand break should be a walk in the park if you can change a suspension arm.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 15 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
stuarthouston wrote:
Walloper wrote:

Well done Sir, I think I can speak for everyone here and say that the rest of the forum will feel a sense of 'achievement' over this.
Very Happy
Have some Karma


Thumbs Up Huzzah! It is a nice feeling when things go to plan! Now that the bike's fixed, need to swap a wishbone and adjust the handbrake on the car ready for re-MOT on Monday. Piece of cake, right? Laughing


Depending on the suspension design you'll defo need a coil spring compressor, a set of axle stands, a wheel chock, a bottle or trolley jack, possibly a ball joint splitter.
Because of the sort of tools used i.e. only used once in a blue moon. it is normally a job for a motor engineers where the hassle and expense of buying the proper tools is exchanged for the codt of labour.
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