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Petrol station fuel thefts by helmeted bikers

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Petrol station fuel thefts by helmeted bikers Reply with quote

Pip pip. Following a previous thread, I've just got the results back from a FOI to Northamptonshire Police about what proportion of fuel thefts are committed by bikers.

It's all ropey scanned documents, so I'll have to transcribe.

Between April 2012 and March 2013 there were 1126 reported fuel thefts in Northamptonshire. The vehicle used was not recorded. However, 10 (ten) of the theft reports included a reference to a helmet. We'll charitably assume that means a helmet that wasn't removed, shall we?

I make that less than 1%. For perhaps 1/4 to 1/5 of the amount that can be taken in a car. So by value about 0.2% of fuel thefts.

The recommendations given by Northamptonshire Police to filling stations wrote:

Beware of large vehicles

In this example, the motorcyclist is using the delivery truck as cover.

The rider is also still wearing his crash helmet making identification impossible.

Recommended Action
If you can't see the pump and who's at it, don't authorise it.

Make sure you can see customers' faces

Here both bikers are using the same pump to refuel.

Neither riders have removed their crash helmets

One of the bikes is not displaying a registration place.

Recommended Action

Don't authorise the pump, request pre-payment.

In summary...

Common Signs
...
Bikers not removing their crash helmets.


That's "common" in the sense of 10 in a year, or maybe £150 worth of fuel. Retail, I mean, do you have to pay duty and VAT on fuel that wasn't actually sold?

And that £150 of fuel is why Northamptonshire Police want all bikers to be asked to remove helmets every time.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 16:17 - 25 Jun 2013; edited 2 times in total
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: Petrol station fuel thefts by helmeted bikers Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
And that £150 of fuel is why Northamptonshire Police want all bikers to be asked to remove helmets every time.

When was this announced?

Good digging, Borgy Thumbs Up
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Nick__C
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cvnts Thumbs Up
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Sako
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Borg you truly are an entertaining font of knowledge Thumbs Up
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Scootaloo
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

CNUTS
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Troy92
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take off helmet, try to hide face and slap on a burka
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Knightsy
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better yet: Put a burqa over the lid and see what happens Laughing
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is one of the images on the documents this?

https://cavebabble.pnrnetworks.popcornnroses.com/files/2011/09/RoadWarriorTruck2.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: Petrol station fuel thefts by helmeted bikers Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
And that £150 of fuel is why Northamptonshire Police want all bikers to be asked to remove helmets every time.

When was this announced?

Heh, "announced". I doubt they've even connected the dots themselves to figure out that the entire problem is less than one good "100% discount" steaks-and-whisky run through Waitrose.

I'd rather not link directly from here to the FOI for reasons, although it's public and easily found for those interested.

Fire in, they're trivial to send via https://www.whatdotheyknow.com - I love seeing how the sausage is made.
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did you write and how much did it cost? I might write to South Yorkshire Police...
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Aff
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
What did you write and how much did it cost? I might write to South Yorkshire Police...


This, I might send one to Dorset police, we seem to be a lot more lax here, I have never been refused at a pump or asked to take my helmet off, nor have I seen anyone else asked in Dorset, stray outside the Shire and its a different matter though.

Will be interesting to see if our stats are higher.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
What did you write and how much did it cost? I might write to South Yorkshire Police...


FOI requests are free although there's provision to make a small charge for photocopies - I've never seen this happen though.

Remember it only applies to the public sector. Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
What did you write and how much did it cost? I might write to South Yorkshire Police...

Costs nothing, it couldn't be simpler at www.whatdotheyknow.com

Rogerborg wrote:
I write with regard to the Northamptonshire Police policy of requesting filling stations to require motorcyclists to remove helmets. An example of a sign referencing this policy can be found here:

[img on BCF Very Happy ]

Please provide:

Any statistics that you hold regarding drive-away fuel thefts in your Force area, and specifically those committed by helmeted motorcyclists.

Complete, unredacted copies of any emails(s), letter(s) or other media that have been communicated by Northamptonshire Police to filling stations regarding this issue.

Any memos, minutes or other documentation relevant to the internal discussions that resulted in this policy being enacted. I am particularly interested in the evidence (if any) that has led to this policy decision, and any records of an expectation that it will result in a drop in crime.


Oh, right, that last bit was just for laughs, I've never had anyone provide that.

In this case, it was hand-waved away as "general advice / guidance given to petrol retailers [...] there is no policy."

Which doesn't actually answer what I asked for, but since it's not really my intention to noise them up, I haven't pressed that point. I'll go ahead and interpret it as "We have no idea why we're doing this, it was some Super needing an example of 'pro-actively leveraging partnerships' for his evaluation."

If they want another inference to be drawn, they could have answered the question.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Kris
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one!
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scorps
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall have to try that with my full face neoprene mask, will take my helmet off but not the mask. I will report back with my findings
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Troy92
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

scorps wrote:
I shall have to try that with my full face neoprene mask, will take my helmet off but not the mask. I will report back with my findings
ive done it once after I've filled up and I'm inline. Tugged my scarf and said its a burka, I then got treated like an alien till I left the shop
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy92 wrote:
scorps wrote:
I shall have to try that with my full face neoprene mask, will take my helmet off but not the mask. I will report back with my findings
ive done it once after I've filled up and I'm inline. Tugged my scarf and said its a burka, I then got treated like an alien till I left the shop


Baron Von Grumble did something similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyg26qXqvXg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does at least give the lie to the hilarious claims that it's got anything at all to do with age verification, or licensing laws, or dangerous fumes filling up our lids or any of that other twonk that's been peddled.

It's purely because they think we'll ride away with the precious fuel of the shop. Which hits the retailer (to an essentially trivial degree) but perhaps as importantly makes the crime figures for the local Constabulary infinitesimally worse, and we can't be having that.

Which I think we all knew anyway, but it's nice to see it confirmed.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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cimbian
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin, You little Tinker! Laughing Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger that last transmission.

https://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3770/ada2l.jpg
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never take mine of, but I turn up on a bike with a full-sized number plate, take my gloves off, keys out, don't hide or use the pump nearest the exit ..


.. and I usually fill up at pre-pay pumps now too, locally at least.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 25 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never take mine off. Been told to remove twice in 6 years so far. Even with wind mask balaclava visible inside helmet never have an issue and havent scared any of the counter staff so far Laughing

Next test shall be a ''gimme all the money'' shirt over leathers Twisted Evil

In avon somerset area that is
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 03:07 - 26 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ladies and gentlemen - I bring you...teh Borginator!!
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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 05:46 - 26 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to fill up on my way home from work at something like 5 in the morning and always remove the lid. I do tend to use a petrol station in one of the shadier parts of town though where fuel theft is rife (or at least was when I worked there).

The question re tax payments = Duty yes VAT no.

Bear in mind that most petrol stations aren't actually owned by Shell etc but are effectively selling on license they make a return of something like 5p per litre. A bilking of £10 worth of fuel would be the equivalent commission from 100l of petrol, plus the costs the retailer would still have to front for the duty.

As for the garage monkey if the manager decides he/she is partially at fault then there will likely be a wage deduction to recover the losses. My old gaffer used to only enforce this in the instance of negligence (such as authorising the pump then nipping off to make a brew). Some may interpret a helmet as a disguise and decide this fits the bill too.

Once you get to know the regulars it doesn't really matter but the problem comes when Steve (twice weekly, fills up a P reg CB500) leaves his helmet on but then on the next pump Curtis on his Zip 50 leaves his lid on. Discrimination you say?. Better it's the same for everybody.
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