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ABS conversion

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Sid_The_Sloth
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: ABS conversion Reply with quote
Is this possible to do for the front brakes of a 750 shadow?
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why would you want to?
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Sid_The_Sloth
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The brakes aren't the best, pretty shit infact. Think they'd be pretty easy to lock if in an emergency situation
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Marmalade
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: 23:38 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You'd need sensors on both wheels.

You need to have decent tyres and ride to within the limits of the bike.

It will only do so much, you can't expect to do 60mph on a wet poor road surface and expect it not to lock up when you slam on the brakes hard. If it is locking up then stay back and slow down.

Maybe change bike to something that suits your riding more.
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Sid_The_Sloth
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've just got the bike, I've never locked my wheels on any bikes yet and have never felt I've out braked myself at any time. I'm not saying I am locking, just not a fan of how weak the brakes are so feel that I may lock at some point in the future.
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Confusion
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 02 May 2013
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: Re: ABS conversion Reply with quote
Sid_The_Sloth wrote:
Is this possible to do for the front brakes of a 750 shadow?


How old is the bike? Is/was there an ABS model available?

ABS hardware is quite complicated. It would be very difficult
to retro-fit ABS to a bike that didn't at least have it as an option.

You would need speed sensors on both wheels, ABS control unit,
modulator/valve/regulator unit (these are quite bulky) and all
associated wiring, warning lights, fuses etc... And lots of extra
flexible and solid brake pipe.

I reckon the simple answer to your question is no.
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Ariel Badger
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 03 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You just need to learn the bike and how it reacts to your commands.
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Sid_The_Sloth
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 04 Jul 2013    Post subject: Re: ABS conversion Reply with quote
Confusion wrote:
Sid_The_Sloth wrote:
Is this possible to do for the front brakes of a 750 shadow?


I reckon the simple answer to your question is no.


OK doke thanks. Its a 2013, there is an ABS model but if its going to require a ridiculous amount of work then sod it.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 04 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sid_The_Sloth wrote:
The brakes aren't the best, pretty shit infact. Think they'd be pretty easy to lock if in an emergency situation

That suggests the brakes are good, not bad.
Or, more importantly; the brakes are better than the tyres/suspension can handle.

Brakes lock because they have too much power, not too little.
If they have too little, you probably don't need ABS!

If there is an ABS sensor, it probably is doable, but going to be expensive unless you can get all the kit cheaply - ie, off a crashed bike etc.
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wots
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 04 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
If there is an ABS sensor, it probably is doable, but going to be expensive unless you can get all the kit cheaply - ie, off a crashed bike etc.
Which you might not want to do anyway, as who is to say that the ABS is damaged in an accident.

Also, AFAIK, ABS is not designed to improve braking efficiency as such, more to provide safer braking on slippery surfaces. Not that it always gets that right. Have you braked on snow or wet grass, I can do a far better job than my car can do. The ABS usually goes into meltdown and makes the car incredibly difficult to control. In the wet, it does what it says on the tin.

Usually the ABS system is interwoven with the existing ECU, even though it has a separate control unit and pump usually. For instance, bikes that have ABS, have an ABS light on the clocks, this isn't necessarily just a light wire going live, it could be a signal generated by either or both ECU's working together.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 04 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I suspect the brakes lock easily by virtue of the fact that it is a cruiser with a relaxed geometry. It probably also has shit tyres and cheapo damper rod suspension.

With a cruiser, when you brake instead of forcing the tyre down onto the road in a mostly vertical motion (as would happen on a steep forked sportsbike) it tries to 'push' the tyre along the road. On a sportsbike if you brake too hard the rear wheel will lift. On a cruiser (with the extra weight and length associated with it) when you brake the front end locks up.

Couple this with poorer quality suspension and crap tyres and you're going to find that the brakes are easy to lock.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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barrkel
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 04 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
With a cruiser, when you brake instead of forcing the tyre down onto the road in a mostly vertical motion (as would happen on a steep forked sportsbike) it tries to 'push' the tyre along the road. On a sportsbike if you brake too hard the rear wheel will lift. On a cruiser (with the extra weight and length associated with it) when you brake the front end locks up.

Couple this with poorer quality suspension and crap tyres and you're going to find that the brakes are easy to lock.


With equivalently effective suspension and tyres, a cruiser should, in theory, out-brake a sportsbike. The weight distribution is different and so the front will naturally lock more easily, but the tradeoff is the rear can take much more braking force. Extra weight doesn't matter unless you're reaching the physical limits of the braking system; tyre friction is proportional to weight.

A sportsbike's braking force is usually limited by the point at which it starts going into a stoppie. Above that deceleration force, extra tyre adhesion can't help it slow any faster. Lots of videos around the web showing sports cars outbraking sportsbikes demonstrate this vividly. A weight distribution that takes more deceleration to start rotating around the front wheel can use more of the tyre friction to slow down.
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