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ZXR 750 J Cooling Issues

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moppy
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 11 Jul 2013    Post subject: ZXR 750 J Cooling Issues Reply with quote
https://cdn.memegenerator.co/instances/400x/39604705.jpg

The coolant seems to escape in no time, I don't know where it's going and I have this brown shit building up everywhere. Temperature is always nearing the red area unless I'm on motorways/high speeds.

https://s18.postimg.org/kddqalg5h/581669_10153029695875374_457255292_n.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/jir6ok8at/1044727_10153029695560374_351590668_n.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/qbrjktz45/1045019_10153029694555374_12430101_n.jpg

https://s18.postimg.org/6smybh0cl/1045156_10153029694780374_363248219_n.jpg

Also the colour of the coolant that came out of the reservoir isn't too nice...

https://s18.postimg.org/ledyzpx51/998347_10153029695400374_2034253943_n.jpg

Where should I start? I'm going to drain the radiator, and run a few litres of water through it, but honestly I'm fairly clueless, so pointers on what to look for would be appreciated.

Cheers[/img]
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 11 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems pretty obvious you have a coolant-system leak somewhere. Maybe happening only at high revs/pressure?

The pipes can lose their seal with age/time, often only need to be disconnected, cleaned and done up again.

Going by the colour you've got regular water in the system when it should be only distilled/de-ionised to help prevent corrosion. You may have gunk built up which would cause issues too.
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stickybackbob
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 11 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:


Going by the colour you've got regular water in the system when it should be only distilled/de-ionised to help prevent corrosion. You may have gunk built up which would cause issues too.


Looks like someone also forgot to put any antifreeze in the water (has anti-corrosion properties). As long as you're not in a hard water area, tap water is fine to use but you do need to add antifreeze.

As Hetzer says, you have a fairly obvious leak. Could be coming from the hoses but you may need to check the metal pipes on the engine (think it should have one front and one rear). That amount of rust in the water can't be good and you may find that the steel pipes on the engine are rusting out.

I'd be taking the radiator off and back flushing it as that's possibly blocked with gunge. This along with a leak, could point to why it runs hot.
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moppy
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm...Very strange.

I couldn't identify a leak yesterday, so I just drained, flushed a few times and filled up the rad (this time with 50/50 coolant and deionised water). Also filled up the coolant reservoir up to the Full mark.

Went out to go stick the fairings back on today and hey presto, the reservoir is empty. Absolutely bone dry. The bike hasn't been run since I filled it up and I can't find any puddles on the floor (although ofcourse, they could have evaporated).

Curiouser and curiouser.

The temperature gauge moves up and down according to bike temp, so I'm assuming thermostat isn't seized?

Last edited by moppy on 13:36 - 07 Oct 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
moppy wrote:
Hmm...Very strange.



Went out to go stick the fairings back on today and hey presto, the reservoir is empty. Absolutely bone dry. The bike hasn't been run since I filled it up and I can't find any puddles on the floor (although ofcourse, they could have evaporated).



Might simply be you had an airlock when you drained and refilled it if you didn't do it right - running it, opening the cap etc, then overnight the header tank has dribbled into the system filling it proper.


moppy wrote:

The temperature gauge moves up and down according to bike temp, so I'm assuming thermostat isn't seized?


I wouldn't rely on that, airflow will have an effect on temperature as well, the thermostat need checking to make sure it isn't sticking causing excess pressure that is blowing the coolant out, or even take it out and run it to see if that improves things.

and just another thought as it hasn't been mentioned...has it got a fan?? more importantly is it working
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
moppy wrote:
Hmm...Very strange.

I couldn't identify a leak yesterday, so I just drained, flushed a few times and filled up the rad (this time with 50/50 coolant and deionised water). Also filled up the coolant reservoir up to the Full mark.

Went out to go stick the fairings back on today and hey presto, the reservoir is empty. Absolutely bone dry. The bike hasn't been run since I filled it up and I can't find any puddles on the floor (although ofcourse, they could have evaporated).

Curiouser and curiouser.

The temperature gauge moves up and down according to bike temp, so I'm assuming thermostat isn't seized?

I'm so shit at buying bikes, bought this in April, and I've already had to refurb the calipers, forks are gonna need rechroming and now this. 12 month MOT means absolutely nada.


One assumes you filled it with a specific quantity according to the manual (X amount in the rad, Y amount in the reservoir)?
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stickybackbob
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's the engine oil like? If it's milky brown, you've blown the head gasket or the waterpump is leaking - black, check that the spark plugs are the proper colour and not too clean. If one or two of them are cleaner than the rest, then it suggests head gasket again. If normal, you should be able to breathe a sigh of relief Smile

If the bike hasn't been run since you put the new coolant in it, then check for leaks around the expansion bottle too. If it turns out that the coolant syphoned into the radiator, that would suggest that your radiator cap isn't sealing properly (reasonable if you think of the amount of sludge)

I'd still be checking where the hoses connect up to the engine and thermostat housing as the metal can rot leading to a fine mist of rusty water being sprayed about.
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moppy
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you all for the replies, let me try and elaborate.

Quote:
Might simply be you had an airlock when you drained and refilled it if you didn't do it right


I followed Haynes instructions, check no bubbles through bled nipple, run engine with rad cap off, hit the tubes to release bubbles etc. But this does seem the most likeliest of explanations for the lack of coolant. I've filled the reservoir up again and keeping a keen eye out for leaks, so will report back again tomorrow when I have to ride the thing to Nottingham.

As for the thermostat...fair point. I reeeeeealy don't wanna take it off yet, but if coolant keeps disappearing, I'm gonna have to dismantle the entire cooling system and have a look to see what's what.

It does have a fan, and it kicks in at the same temp (according to the analogue temp gauge).


Quote:
One assumes you filled it with a specific quantity according to the manual (X amount in the rad, Y amount in the reservoir)?
Manuals advice was to simply fill the rad up to the neck and the reservoir somewhere between Low and Full. And I did exactly that.



Engine oil...looks alright? I'm gonna do an oil change in the near future so will have a proper look at that soon. I took the spark plugs out, here have a look, like fuck do I know if it's the right colour or not.


https://s22.postimg.org/rdafkg0nh/2013_07_11_16_50_55.jpg


Quote:
If the bike hasn't been run since you put the new coolant in it, then check for leaks around the expansion bottle too. If it turns out that the coolant syphoned into the radiator, that would suggest that your radiator cap isn't sealing properly (reasonable if you think of the amount of sludge)


No leaks around expansion bottle, so I'm guessing it's the radiator cap. It is mega rusty. Will give it a proper clean before tomorrow and see what happens.

I had a good look at the hoses, but they all seem to be water tight enough, but it occurs to me now after Ive put the fairing back on that I only really checked when the bike was warming up and wasn't still checking when the fan had kicked in and the bike was truly hot. Damn.

Will update tomorrow, thanks for the help and if people could give me their opinion on the spark plugs, would appreciate. Cheers
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pretty crap manual then. I knew I'd done my system correctly because the (workshop) manual specified exactly how much fluid was required. Until you know the amount you can't be sure you've got rid of all possible airlocks etc.
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moppy
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Had a closer look at the Haynes, 2.8L apparently. God knows how much I put in.
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stickybackbob
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
moppy wrote:
here have a look, like fuck do I know if it's the right colour or not.


https://s22.postimg.org/rdafkg0nh/2013_07_11_16_50_55.jpg


Look good to me, but what do I know Smile Sounding more like a cap problem now though and I think we've eliminated the most expensive failures.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
moppy wrote:
Had a closer look at the Haynes, 2.8L apparently. God knows how much I put in.


Drain it, do it again.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I took the rad off mine and ran the engine with a hose into the filler under the tank. That shifted the crap.
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garth
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Daz is good for cleaning up the insides. I'm not even taking the piss.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
garth wrote:
Daz is good for cleaning up the insides. I'm not even taking the piss.


So's fresh clean water.
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misscrabstick
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm kinda looking at that pic of the splat on the floor, is it more rusty water or milky brown sludgy? milky brown sludgy indicates mixing with engine oil, that's not good news.

I have a zx6r in my fleet and the temp gauge behaves like this, warms up and stays at first mark on gauge all the time I am moving above say 5 mph ( the thermostat constantly opens and closes to maintain this reading), when I am in slow moving town traffic or stationary the needle will raise to the second mark on the gauge after some time, the fan kicks in and maintains this temperature by cutting in and out as needed until I get moving again, the gauge reading then returns to the lower mark again as the air through the radiator brings it down.

Running near the red most of the time would seem to indicate some pretty bad issues, and I would advise you to not ride with this happening, cracking of your cylinder head or warping it, or blowing the gasket are a very real possibility.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 12 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another vote for a blown head gasket, check your oil.
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evoboy
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 13 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
My zx7r never used to get over half way on the gauge where the fan would kick in...

Pretty much the same bike as the J model.
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moppy
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 13 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm, went to Nottingham and back today, the temp gauge never went above the mark I've circled in the picture below.

https://s21.postimg.org/jj7y61n6b/zx75_tclk_s.jpg

Still plenty of coolant in the reservoir tank as well...Safe to say all is well maybe?

Will have a close look at the oil when I change it, but hoping it's all good...
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 13 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The reservoir tank opens up to the rest of the system only when the temp goes above a certain point AFAIK.
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 13 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
The reservoir tank opens up to the rest of the system only when the temp goes above a certain point AFAIK.


Nope, the thermostat opens up to let the whole system flow when it gets up to temperature has nothing to do with and doesn't block the header/expansion tank, that works on either gravity or vacuum depending on which type it is, not temperature.
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