Licence question for (not so) new rider

[pdg]

Might as well give it a shot here... From experience asking a training provider won't get me a straight answer.

A relative of mine has been expressing an interest in (re)taking up riding. She passed her car test in about 1749 and as such has the full category P (moped) included. She rode scoots back in the 70s.

Would she need to take a CBT now to ride a 50?

Cheers.

p.s. answers such as '50s are dull, get a bigger bike' aren't going to help - she is fully aware of the limitations of riding a 50.

[Clutchy]

Didn't know they bothered with licenses back in the 1700's





Serious: Yes she can, doesn't need L plates either for a 50
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[suburban myth]

And can carry pillion.

[Efes123]

1749 Even if you meant 1949 that would put her in her late 70s, early 80s. She probably needs a doctors note to say she's fit to drive/ride.
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[-Matt-]

Knew the old license owners could ride scooters but without L's and with pillions .. really

[Efes123]

[pdg]

[MC]

[-Matt-]

[MC]

[Efes123]

[Teflon-Mike]

Not all Scooters are mopeds.
Not all mopeds are scooters.

Moped = by law; a machine of less than 50cc and incapable of more than aprox 35mph depending on regs in force at time of build.

Scooter = undefined in law. A style of powered two-wheeler. Generally distinguished by having small wheels; a 'step-through' style frame, with some weather protection for the rider; and commonly the engine placed in the rear half of the machine, under or behind the rider, often 'un-sprung' moving with the suspension. Usually having smaller capacity engines, most scooters are in the 50-125cc range, to suit the non-enthusiast market where they may be ridden without licence (in some countries) or on easily obtained licences, such as the UK 'provisional' entitlement for Learners. However, larger displacement scooters are still reasonably common, with machines of 150, 175 and 200 offered in markets where they too could be riden on easily obtained licence entitlement. Larger displacement scooters have been less common; and in recent years, models over 250cc have been described as 'Super-Scooters' with models rivaling those of mid and even large displacement conventional motorcycles offered. Transmissions are usually 'twist and go' automatics, but again, it is not obligatory. Many scooters have been made with manual transmissions.

pdg - your freind might have some entitlements by dint of 'grandad rights'

If her car licence was obtained prior to 2001 its likely she has full moped entitlement, and could ride a 50cc machine, without L-Plates and even carry a pillion, if she wanted.

If she wanted to ride a 125; then her provisional entitlement may be less certain.

If she passed her Car driving licence prior to 1982, she may have grandad rights that permit unsupervised L-Plating without CBT, as awarded at that time.

If she passed her Car driving test AFTER 1982, provisional motorcycle entitlement was NOT automatically put on the licence. You had to check the box to ask for it to be added to the provisional licence entitlements, and it was valid for ONLY two years. If she did not pass a driving test in those two years, then the motorcycle entitlement lapsed, and could only be re-awarded by re-applying for entitlement, after a mandatory 12moth period of exception.

'Perpetual' Motorcycle Provisional entitlement was ONLY granted on full licences if a car driving test was passed, AND the licence holder had requested provisional motorcycle entitlement prior to taking that test, AND the provisional entitlement on the licence was valid AT the time tests were passed......

I think! Basically you had to check the box and pass car test within two years.. which was wot I did.... I could still be wallying about on L's now, having never taken even a CBT had I not taken bike tests.

I seem to recall that some lads tried passing car test after thier bike provisional had expired, to get the provisional bike entitlement back, but didn't... but its a bit murky!

HOWEVER..... scooters in the 70's? We're talking a LONG time out the saddle!

Just tell her to go do a CBT and be done!

Its a worth-while refresher and probably covers stuff she never knew as well as stuff she's forgotten about.... and £90 or whatever, and a DL196 form, saves SO many stupid questions from dim witted insurance companies and or plod!
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[Efes123]

[Teflon-Mike]

[pdg]

[Teflon-Mike]

[pdg]

I would quote snips but it's hassle I can do without...

So.

Why do you need to know about current helmet standards and rules? Go into a shop and ask about buying a new helmet, they will give you endless leaflets extolling the virtues of various models that all exceed current standards and explain how. Alternatively, get your old helmet out of the cupboard that's sat there since 1982 - it's still legal to use. Talking riding a moped here, a machine that it's entirely possible to outrun riding a pushbike while not wearing a helmet at all.

Cost of CBT around here is pretty much fixed at £130 - that's an expensive 'laugh' to my mind. Especially when the main training area used is public access so you can go and fall off to your hearts' content. £130 buys a lot of 'fixing' when it's me doing the fixing.

Now the stupid questions.

"If you are on L plates" - she won't be, that's the point of the thread...

Insurance -- Since passing my bike test I have never been asked for a copy of my CBT certificate for insurance purposes. If they kick up a fuss I'll direct them to https://www.gov.uk/cbt-compulsory-basic-training/cbt-if-you-have-a-car-driving-licence and/or go elsewhere. (Yes, I have now found something relevant which seemed to elude me before I started this thread).

Getting a producer -- However unclued up the copper is, I would expect them to be able to differentiate between a provisional and a full licence category. Whether they can or can't it won't stop a producer being issued so you simply print the page linked above and take it with you.

Tests -- if you're taking a 'proper bike' test it's not going to be on a moped, and to ride anything larger/faster than a moped you need a CBT....

Honestly, I'll freely admit that there are things that just about everybody can pick up from a CBT - I'm certainly not saying I know everything - but looking at cost vs. benefit I don't see a whole lot of win going on.

[sickpup]