Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Music - why 4/4?

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

D O G
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:23 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Educate me, mofos.

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?

Don't we as umans gravitate to odd numbers - triple beatz, so why is the most influential cultural tool so apparently misaligned?

It was Kraftwerk wot set me off. Experimental, avant garde, yet slavishly sticking to 4/4, with the 16/32 beat shifts.

And a wun and a two and a wun two tree four...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

_Will_
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:28 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpB_40hYjXU

Laughing
____________________
Past -Honda qr50 | 2004 Peugeot Tkr s 50| | 1996 Yamaha XJ600s Diversion|| 2005|Kawasaki Z750s | | 2006 Yamaha FZ6 Fazer |
|| 1999 Cbr1100xx Blackbird || ||| 2000 Kawasaki Zx12R ||| (|2009 Street Triple R |) // 2004 Honda Hornet Streetfighter \\|=| 2000 BMW R1100S |=| ------ My Bikepics page ------
Suffering Bike Withdrawal.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Marcg868
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:26 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can't beat a bit of four to the floor. Although some of the stuff that uses that beat pattern is crap. For example anything David Guetta produces or rips off.
____________________
JACK, MISS YOU LOADS YOU LEGEND.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

woodall57
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:37 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
6/8 is a good time sig Very Happy deadmau5 fml is done in that and its an edm track Thumbs Up seems 4/4 and has a triplet feel
____________________
cbt:4/7/12 theory:16/7/12 module 1:12/8/12 module 2: ?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

The Shaggy D.A.
Super Spammer



Joined: 12 Sep 2008
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:01 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some of my favourite music isn't 4/4...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FuWVInbqw - 8/8 & 5/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QetV4uZqr6g - 9/8 & 7/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7R7q1lSZfs - 3/4
____________________
Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

i.p.phrealy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:27 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
^^^^ I agree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a76v4PdYBh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XI1DD_vJuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE8aP6jALyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=famsw_uofcQ

slightly different musical style though. Laughing
____________________
it is impossible to lick your own elbow...
and if you just tried you need professional help.
Finally allowed a big bike 19/03/14!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:27 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Educate me, mofos.

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?

Don't we as umans gravitate to odd numbers - triple beatz, so why is the most influential cultural tool so apparently misaligned?.


SYNCOPATION

"Modern" music is not even or rythmic despite being technically in 4/4. The overwhelming majority of modern music has an off-beat melody.

You don't sing and play lead guitar in time with the drummer, the drums start, the melody follows three beats later.

That's why the bassist has his back to you. Look at the vocalist and you'll lose it because the lyrics and the bass are not on the same beat (with noteable exceptions, many of which involve Ritchie Blackmore).
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
Super Spammer



Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:31 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
bwfc4eva86 wrote:
You can't beat a bit of four to the floor. Although some of the stuff that uses that beat pattern is crap. For example anything David Guetta produces or rips off.

4/4 pays.

https://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-highest-paid-djs-in-2013/

and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.
____________________
Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

metalangel
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Karma :
PostPosted: 01:35 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
____________________
Previous: 2002 Honda CB500 (sold), 2007 Suzuki SV650SK6 (crashed), 2005 Yamaha FZ6 Fazer (sold). Currently bikeless Sad
"A faired bike will get you 10x more clunge than a unfaired one." -Marlboro Matt
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

mistergixer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 05:55 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
HRT wrote:


and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.


No, but they're still shit regardless.

Thumbs Up
____________________
Space Monkey #7
Don Eladio is dead. His capos are dead. You have no one left to fight for. Fill your pockets and leave in peace. Or fight me and die!
Mistergixer's videos on YouTube
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 06:02 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't really get music terminology Confused
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 09:42 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Educate me, mofos.

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?

Don't we as umans gravitate to odd numbers - triple beatz, so why is the most influential cultural tool so apparently misaligned?

It was Kraftwerk wot set me off. Experimental, avant garde, yet slavishly sticking to 4/4, with the 16/32 beat shifts.

And a wun and a two and a wun two tree four...


Yeah dunno - I think it's a relatively recent thing though. The waltz, 3:4 time, was pretty ubiquitous prior to the 20th century. There was also a theory that, further back, fives were the go-to time sig - because we have 5 fingers, so a simple rhythmic pattern would be a constant interval of each finger across a simple skin drum. Famous fives from modern stuff include e.g. Schiffrin's theme to Mission Impossible, and of course Take 5 by Brubeck. The melodies are so strong in each that you almost don't notice they're not in four until you start counting.

Anyway, maybe four time took hold with the emergence of the modern drum kit - via jazz and so forth. Cos with drummer's having four limbs in play - kick with right foot, hats left foot, hats also right hand and snare left hand. Fours seem the logical way to play?
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 09:43 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
mistergixer wrote:
HRT wrote:


and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.


No, but they're still shit regardless.

Thumbs Up


PatGoD and the comp Relics are fucking ace. The rest - uh...meh?
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

fatpies
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:29 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Fours seem the logical way to play?



I'm a rookie pianist, but 4 beats per bar, means that it fits in nicely with the whole, half, 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 1/64 notes so that all the notes add up to a whole.

Timing is one of my weakest points, the stuff I know off music memory can be played at well over 200bpm. Which means pieces at the start are always played better than the middle and end as I've gone over them more times.
____________________
"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

D O G
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:54 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
HT wrote:
bwfc4eva86 wrote:
You can't beat a bit of four to the floor. Although some of the stuff that uses that beat pattern is crap. For example anything David Guetta produces or rips off.

4/4 pays.

https://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-highest-paid-djs-in-2013/

and a little 7/8 didn't do too bad for pink floyd.


Fucking hell, Pauly D, some total no mark from that Jersey Shore program gets $11m per year. Crazy.


He's still better than Guetta, however! Laughing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

D O G
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:01 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Some of my favourite music isn't 4/4...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FuWVInbqw - 8/8 & 5/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QetV4uZqr6g - 9/8 & 7/8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7R7q1lSZfs - 3/4


1st two I can get the time, but Golden Brown just fucks me (pardon the pun).
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

The Shaggy D.A.
Super Spammer



Joined: 12 Sep 2008
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:30 - 22 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was wrong, it's not 3/4. Still a fave song Smile

Quote:
"Golden Brown" is a waltzing, harpsichord-led ballad in a 6/8 and 7/8 time signature by The Stranglers. The instrumental bridges add an extra beat in every other measure, effectively producing a 13/8 time signature.


https://videosift.com/video/The-Stranglers-Golden-Brown
____________________
Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Annabella
Like a person, only smaller



Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:53 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
D O G wrote:

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?


Because we have two legs, two arms.
Strongest, weak, strong, weakest is easiest to walk to, dance to, nod our heads to.

You try walking in time to Take Five...




For geekery, the time signature is easily explained.

The top number is simply the number of beats in the bar (consider the start of each bar where the STRONG beat is - so if you want a strong beat every three notes, then go with 3 at the top, every other go for 2 (or 6/8 if you want a move 'driven' feeling)).

The bottom number is what type of note length the beat is.

4 is a crotchet, 2 is a semi-breve, 8 is a quaver.
Quite simply, using a crotchet as your 'base' note value it gives you the most options for notating faster and slower notes. If you start as 16 being your 'base' not (i.e. semi-quavers) anything *faster* than the beat of the music would just looks like a sneeze on the page. Aesthetically, shite to look at and impossible for a short-sighted geeky musician to read.
____________________
Avast! Pirates ahoy!
I did Cadwell! Very Happy
www.bikepics.com/members/bella
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:29 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Annabella wrote:


Because we have two legs, two arms.
Strongest, weak, strong, weakest is easiest to walk to, dance to, nod our heads to.


But as I already said the fact that we have four limbs pre-dates the dominance of four time - by about 194,900 years ago. Prior to that most folk music(s) made good use of three time, as have various forms of chamber and classical music. The modern and thus comparatively very recent dominance of four time seems to warrant further explanation.

Annabella wrote:
You try walking in time to Take Five...


Not a problem. Ditto for all music with a *constant* tempo. Difficulties in some kind of corresponding physical coordination only really emerge when the tempo of a piece makes abrupt and/or random BPM changes.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

SQL
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:43 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Annabella wrote:
D O G wrote:

Why is the 4/4 so ubiquitous? Why does virtually all pop/electronic use it [other than for the fact everything else uses it]?


Because we have two legs, two arms.
Strongest, weak, strong, weakest is easiest to walk to, dance to, nod our heads to.

You try walking in time to Take Five...




For geekery, the time signature is easily explained.

The top number is simply the number of beats in the bar (consider the start of each bar where the STRONG beat is - so if you want a strong beat every three notes, then go with 3 at the top, every other go for 2 (or 6/8 if you want a move 'driven' feeling)).

The bottom number is what type of note length the beat is.

4 is a crotchet, 2 is a semi-breve, 8 is a quaver.
Quite simply, using a crotchet as your 'base' note value it gives you the most options for notating faster and slower notes. If you start as 16 being your 'base' not (i.e. semi-quavers) anything *faster* than the beat of the music would just looks like a sneeze on the page. Aesthetically, shite to look at and impossible for a short-sighted geeky musician to read.

hmm quavers
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Entertwainer
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 13 May 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:12 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
what about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNdnOTvGbJQ
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

fatpies
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:18 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Music - why 4/4? Reply with quote
Annabella wrote:


Aesthetically, shite to look at and impossible for a short-sighted geeky musician to read.


you should see Chinese sheet music.

https://pic.guzheng.cn/qupu/popguzheng/qnzl-43haoxinfenshou.gif

Plus just to confuse it even more there is often a BPM number above the first bar to tell you how fast you should count. I can't play faster than allegro Without totally memorising a piece as my sight reading skill is poor.

Which is annoying because many modern pieces are presto! and above.
____________________
"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

carlosthejack...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:51 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
i.p.phrealy wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XI1DD_vJuY



RIP Dime. Crying or Very sad Sadly missed.
____________________
Responsibility. It's a difficult reality for some. I'm running the 2014 Sheffield Half Marathon on behalf of Bluebell Wood Childrens Hospice. Please sponsor me, even if it's just a quid.
DonnyBrago: "I think you may be confusing rain and napalm..." Paulington: "It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it."
Current rides: '05 VFR800 VTEC, '57 Mondeo 1.8 TDCi #58LEGEND
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:04 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cause you look like a twat waltzing to techno and rock....
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ThoughtContro...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:22 - 23 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Cause you look like a twat waltzing to techno and rock....


What, you've never been totally pissed out your skull, doing some mad ballroom dancing piss take with a mate to some mad shit in the pit? You're missing out on some fun Very Happy
____________________
Prize cunt
--
"In a world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 12 years, 230 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.12 Sec - Server Load: 0.38 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 142.34 Kb