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snapped cylinder bolt... :(

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Norlig
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Joined: 29 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: snapped cylinder bolt... :( Reply with quote

Just going to start this thread with saying that, I am going to buy a torque tool and new bolts first thing tomorrow.


So, I managed to do this:

https://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6835/r00x.jpg

A friend said it was easy and that I just need to drill it out?

Can someone tell me what the easiest way to get this out now is? is it indeed drilling?
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dansp1
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you snap it? doing it up?
if so a good sharp centre punch used carefully to tap it round should work Very Happy
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Norlig
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

dansp1 wrote:
How did you snap it? doing it up?
if so a good sharp centre punch used carefully to tap it round should work Very Happy


Snapped when turning it to fasten the cylinder to the crank case, I'll give it a try to hit it like that, but it looks like it sheared in a way that doesnt give me many places to hit.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

dansp1 wrote:
How did you snap it? doing it up?
if so a good sharp centre punch used carefully to tap it round should work Very Happy


After it's been tightened up hard enough to shear? Good luck with that.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:

After it's been tightened up hard enough to shear? Good luck with that.


If we assume the bolt hasn't bottomed out in its tapped hole then currently it won't be under any tensile/compressive loads so it should be relatively free. The tightness comes from the tension in the fastener between the flange on the bolt head and the threads. Without a bolt head obviously it should be pretty loose.

Obviously if it sheared due to the tip of the threaded section bottoming out, as it may well have due the the bolt shearing rather than the threads stripping, then you'd be right as the remains of the bolt will still be loaded.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

True that. Thumbs Up
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hit the stub square on with the punch near the edge. This will leave a dent in the stub (if you hit it hard enough).

Then, angle the punch with it in the dent and then gently(ish) tap the punch in the correct to undo it.

You'll need a good quality punch with a thin tip for best results. A good quality punch will have a seriously hard tip.
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Hit the stub square on with the punch near the edge. This will leave a dent in the stub (if you hit it hard enough).

Then, angle the punch with it in the dent and then gently(ish) tap the punch in the correct to undo it.

You'll need a good quality punch with a thin tip for best results. A good quality punch will have a seriously hard tip.


This method has worked for me more than once !. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Case wrote:

This method has worked for me more than once !. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up


Believe it or not, I was taught that one by a mechanic who I paid to do work for me. There are good ones out there...
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1cyl
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy Dormer screw extractor. Tape up crankcase opening and slowly drill a nice neat hole in snapped thread using a nice cutting agent. Spray with WD 40. Extract using correct extractor for hole size.

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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

What has happened to your piston, it looks like it has had acne.
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Norlig
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariel Badger wrote:
What has happened to your piston, it looks like it has had acne.


That's just some 2 stroke oil i put around the edge of the piston when I first fastened the new piston/cylinder.
Supposedly it helps against scratches from dirt

Edit: it came out with ease... I am so surprised.

All it took was to push on the edge on the top of it as you said above Smile . It was almost as if it was hand tightened
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dansp1
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PostPosted: 08:26 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

no charge Wink
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Robby
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't use an extractor. It will snap, and then you'll be fucked.

Drill a pilot hole with a cobalt drill bit and plenty of cutting fluid. Then switch to left-handed drill bits to drill out the remains. Most times the left-handed drill bits will unscrew the remains once enough metal has been removed.

Use a torque wrench next time. It looks like an M10 bolt that you've snapped. Cylinder head bolts only tend to require between 20 and 40 ft-lb of torque, and it takes a lot more than that to snap an M10 mild steel bolt.
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Don't use an extractor. It will snap, and then you'll be fucked.

Drill a pilot hole with a cobalt drill bit and plenty of cutting fluid. Then switch to left-handed drill bits to drill out the remains. Most times the left-handed drill bits will unscrew the remains once enough metal has been removed.

Use a torque wrench next time. It looks like an M10 bolt that you've snapped. Cylinder head bolts only tend to require between 20 and 40 ft-lb of torque, and it takes a lot more than that to snap an M10 mild steel bolt.


Robby's advice is dead right don't use extractors they are the invention of the Devil, should it snap and they usually do when start putting anything like any twisting force into them the bastard things break and when previously you had a problem now you're in deep shit. If using a centre-punch and a relatively light hammer doesn't work and if the remains of the bolt aren't 'bottomed' in the thread, it usually does the trick, his drill advice is spot-on. That or professional help is the answer. Best of luck !.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:


Use a torque wrench next time. It looks like an M10 bolt that you've snapped. Cylinder head bolts only tend to require between 20 and 40 ft-lb of torque, and it takes a lot more than that to snap an M10 mild steel bolt.


Interesting you saw mild steel bolt rather than "hi-tensile". Are head bolts normally mild steel and loaded into their plastic deformation range? If so it would make sense as I've heard that some head bolts are meant to be single use, as are some brake disc bolts etc.
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Norlig
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

As mentined earlier, I got the bolt off easy as It hadn't bottomned. Smile

I have bought a Torque socket wrench now, also found in the manual that I need 15nM of torque on them.

But, I did not find any bolts from any store that were the same length and diamater as the ones I had, so I made my own:

https://imageshack.us/a/img543/8116/ch2h.png

https://imageshack.us/a/img708/918/2lzz.jpg

But then the same person as in the first post said that I should not use them because they might not take the heat from the cylinder (although the bike is liquid cooled), another person said it might corrode, as the crank case is cast steel?
The bolts I made are stainless steel, not fermented

Can I use these, or do I have to order some bolts?
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Timmeh
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this is a trick question?
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Welshd1k
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timmeh wrote:
Is this is a trick question?


one would hope so SS bolts are more prone to snapping if ii recal correcttly and im pretty certain head bolts are a certain grade of steel to deal with the heat and stretchng etc and to be torqued...
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Robby
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say mild steel as opposed to stainless steel, not going into complexities of grades.

OP, get the right bolts from a dealer. You managed to snap a mild steel bolt, so now you want to replace it with what looks like some easy-shear stainless threaded bar from a garden centre. When that snaps you'll be fucked.

Get the right parts, follow the manual to do the job right, don't bodge it or take shortcuts when failure can cause expensive damage.
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Norlig
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gonna visit the local MC workshop on monday then, if they dont have it, I'll order from the webs.

Thanks!
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