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Help needed: sudden low power

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Astandane
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Help needed: sudden low power Reply with quote

Bike: 1986 Kawasaki Z400 F2, 4 cylinder, carburetor.

Hello all,

Ok so here is my problem. My recent purchase (the above bike) has been running fine all day. I have probably done around 200 miles or so (today) (and have had it for a couple of days now). On my way back home, I stopped by the shop. As I set off all was fine, I turn a corner and as I begin to pull away I am suddenly low on power.

Opening the throttle more makes very little difference, though I did have a 'blip' where all was normal for a moment.

There is no smoke from the exhaust, no oil leaking and no strong smells. All of the lights and electrical systems appear fine.

Before this the bike started very well and warmed on the choke easily. After I limped home I let the bike settle for a minute or two and started it up again. There is still a lack of power, and is now harder to start, but will start although it now idles at much lower rev. Revving in neutral doesn't blip, stutter or whatever, but doesn't have the same power as normal.

I'm thinking blockage somewhere but do not yet know the location of the fuel filter.

Any help would be really appreciated Smile
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stab in Dark.

Is there Fuel in it?

Is it Petrol or Diesel? Laughing
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes plenty of fuel. Have tried with tap in both ON and RES position. No idea why there would be diesel in it.
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69chris
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

as it happened after you turned a corner could it have 'tugged' the wiring around the headstock and partially pulled a connector apart or disturbed the throttle cable somehow ???
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

69chris wrote:
as it happened after you turned a corner could it have 'tugged' the wiring around the headstock and partially pulled a connector apart or disturbed the throttle cable somehow ???


Been turning corners all day! I don't think so and wouldn't explain poor idling.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astandane wrote:
No idea why there would be diesel in it.


Cause some daft edjit possibly put it there.. Embarassed Very Happy
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Astandane wrote:
No idea why there would be diesel in it.


Cause some daft edjit possibly put it there.. Embarassed Very Happy


Filled the tank with petrol before I left for home Crying or Very sad
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wild Crack at it now...

The fuel cap vent has become blocked (as if by magic).
It would allow normal power until the fuel used produced a vacuum in the tank and that would slow fuel supply to the engine.
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69chris
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astandane wrote:

Been turning corners all day! I don't think so and wouldn't explain poor idling.


prob not but its always best to check the obvious/easy stuff 1st Wink

we'r talking about an old bike here so it'd be easier to just say it could be anything from rust in the tank grotting up the tank filter/ carbs to the coils breaking down,

good luck Thumbs Up
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have an "OFF" on the tap or a "PRI"

If PRI, try using that.

Alternatively, 200 miles today + 1 tank of fuel is amazing, sure you haven't refueled today.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Wild Crack at it now...

The fuel cap vent has become blocked (as if by magic).
It would allow normal power until the fuel used produced a vacuum in the tank and that would slow fuel supply to the engine.


Hmm ok. What bothers me the most is that it just suddenly happened. Although at least it happened right outside my front door Very Happy
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

69chris wrote:
Astandane wrote:

Been turning corners all day! I don't think so and wouldn't explain poor idling.


prob not but its always best to check the obvious/easy stuff 1st Wink

we'r talking about an old bike here so it'd be easier to just say it could be anything from rust in the tank grotting up the tank filter/ carbs to the coils breaking down,

good luck Thumbs Up


Yeah you're right I guess. It's actually looking really good for it's age and has on just now done 26,000.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Do you have an "OFF" on the tap or a "PRI"

If PRI, try using that.

Alternatively, 200 miles today + 1 tank of fuel is amazing, sure you haven't refueled today.


I will do so. And yes I topped up before I left start and end of journey.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it be running on two cylinders because one of the coils has gone?
All my bikes 'of that vintage' did that at least once.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Could it be running on two cylinders because one of the coils has gone?


I wondered that, but I did experience a blip of full power as I was trundling down the lane at 15mph.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's actually what made me suggest it, they often go in and out before failing totally, whereas other problems don't intermittently go away.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Could it be running on two cylinders because one of the coils has gone?
All my bikes 'of that vintage' did that at least once.


Would age or mileage contribute more to this? Bike has only done 26,000.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another for you.

Two Triumph Sprint STs
One less than 4k on the way home one evening I noticed a loss of power. Topped up fuel tank but still the same. The fuel supply is via an electric valve under tank.
Second bike same problem but at 6k.

Dealer check determined failed Ignition coils on two cylinders of 1st bike and one on the 2nd bike.

Low mileage failures in areas that SHOULD be bullet proof with today's tech. I no longer own British Bikes. (apart from my two Trusty Auld Beezirz)
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doggone
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had one go about 4000 miles.
When they go they go.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
That's actually what made me suggest it, they often go in and out before failing totally, whereas other problems don't intermittently go away.


Hmm to me the failure was complete and sudden apart this ONE brief blip. No other occurrences of it.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Here's another for you.

Two Triumph Sprint STs
One less than 4k on the way home one evening I noticed a loss of power. Topped up fuel tank but still the same. The fuel supply is via an electric valve under tank.
Second bike same problem but at 6k.

Dealer check determined failed Ignition coils on two cylinders of 1st bike and one on the 2nd bike.

Low mileage failures in areas that SHOULD be bullet proof with today's tech. I no longer own British Bikes. (apart from my two Trusty Auld Beezirz)


I'm really in for a sleepless night then! I'm going to have run it down to my dealer tomorrow. If this is what has happened, would 2 mile max run be damaging to the engine?
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doggone
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well don't rule coils out because it's an easy fix.
See what happens if you take the leads from one coil off.
It will either not run at all or make next to no difference.
Don't forget which one goes where. Laughing
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Well don't rule coils out because it's an easy fix.
See what happens if you take the leads from one coil off.
It will either not run at all or make next to no difference.
Don't forget which one goes where. Laughing


Your words 'easy fix' are pleasing to my eyes. Cutting through traffic and cruising along today while the weather was nice has been suddenly spoiled Neutral
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astandane wrote:
Walloper wrote:
Here's another for you.

Two Triumph Sprint STs
One less than 4k on the way home one evening I noticed a loss of power. Topped up fuel tank but still the same. The fuel supply is via an electric valve under tank.
Second bike same problem but at 6k.

Dealer check determined failed Ignition coils on two cylinders of 1st bike and one on the 2nd bike.

Low mileage failures in areas that SHOULD be bullet proof with today's tech. I no longer own British Bikes. (apart from my two Trusty Auld Beezirz)


I'm really in for a sleepless night then! I'm going to have run it down to my dealer tomorrow. If this is what has happened, would 2 mile max run be damaging to the engine?


You can determine if the coils are fooked by a 'Cut Out Test'. With the engine at idle remove a plug connector to the coil or a plug cap if single coil.
A dead coil/plug/HT circuit will have no effect on the engine. A good coil/plug/HT circuit will result in the engine becoming very lumpy or a stall.
Process of elimination.

Running the bike with a dead cylinder means unburned fuel can run down into the oil. SO work out how much fuel to run two miles Divided by the No' of dead cylinders will let you know how much fuel you have in the dead cylinders. Most of the mixture will be blown out when on the exhaust stroke though so no MAJOR worry for a shot distance.
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Astandane
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 29 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
You can determine if the coils are fooked by a 'Cut Out Test'. With the engine at idle remove a plug connector to the coil or a plug cap if single coil.
A dead coil/plug/HT circuit will have no effect on the engine. A good coil/plug/HT circuit will result in the engine becoming very lumpy or a stall.
Process of elimination.

Running the bike with a dead cylinder means unburned fuel can run down into the oil. SO work out how much fuel to run two miles Divided by the No' of dead cylinders will let you know how much fuel you have in the dead cylinders. Most of the mixture will be blown out when on the exhaust stroke though so no MAJOR worry for a shot distance.


I'm starting to think it is the coils then as those symptoms sound like what is happening. I remember a mechanic once saying "Welcome to the world of biking".
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