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can you jump start a bike with a car?

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Mondeo Man
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: can you jump start a bike with a car? Reply with quote

Simple question, probably a simple answer.

Thanks
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neatbik
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,

Jumped a GL1000 from a old Landrover on thursday night.

Depends on the output of the jumper, and the max load of the jumpee.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. Jumped a Firestorm from a bugervan once. Laughing
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Yup. Jumped a Firestorm from a bugervan once. Laughing

Does it have blacked out windows and a lube dispenser?
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my word. Embarassed
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the car battery. Don't have the car engine running.

Actually, if it's your bike, disregard. You probably know better.
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unluckyluke
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've jumped started my bike from a cordless drill battery once!
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brains_t
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Use the car battery. Don't have the car engine running....


This is so important as some alternators on cars like mine can fry other vehicle electrics due to the smart charge systems
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

brains_t wrote:
This is so important as some alternators on cars like mine can fry other vehicle electrics due to the smart charge systems


Please explain further?
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jeddy11
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think i read about this,with smart charge the problem comes on a jump start, when the PCM sees a cold engine, and then a poor battery condition, and can then instantly zap out about 18 volts because its trying to recover the battery. Unfortunately this sudden surge can cook modules.

Thus cooking your bike ! clever system that charges harder when colder or something....


sickpup wrote:
brains_t wrote:
This is so important as some alternators on cars like mine can fry other vehicle electrics due to the smart charge systems


Please explain further?

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P.
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mums Passat, when running produced 14.2V.

Used it to try and fire my Blackbird.

Unsure why you'd be worried about the car being on... I've never cared, nor has anything bad happened.

Also, sure when I had the Bandit 600, the Rover 25 GTi I was using wouldn't give you any juice from the battery until you started the car. The immob would remove the +12v. Cheap alarm eh.
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Clutchy
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it more to do with the amps the alternator will put out that could cause problems?

I don't know, only guessing
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c-m
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

brains_t wrote:

This is so important as some alternators on cars like mine can fry other vehicle electrics due to the smart charge systems


I heard this too, but I beleive it to be nonsense.

Aprilia Falco must have the worst electrical system in the world but jump started from a car with the engine running no problem.

Pretty much all car systems are 12v so there is not problem there, in terms of power electrical items only take what they need. Plus you've got fuses to blow if there is problem with current.

Still, unless the car battery is in poor condition, why bother wasting time running the car?
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LaurenceR46
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said no problem just don't run the car to be safe.

Alternatively store a little leisure battery with low self discharge around they will jump a bike easy.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't do it with the car engine running. But for different reasons than those stated.

In short, if the cars voltage regulator is set at, say, 14.8v and the bikes is set at 14.5v and you attach the car to the bike, the bikes regulator will try to regulate the car alternator output. The car will keep upping its output (you'll hear it rev up), the bikes regulator will keep trying to dump it. The car will win.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
...he Rover 25 GTi I was using wouldn't give you any juice from the battery until you started the car. The immob would remove the +12v. Cheap alarm eh.


Errrr, wut?! The battery is 12v across the terminals regardless of what the car does (besides shorting it and draining it).

I jump start with the donor off... if the battery in the donor is capable of starting its own engine happily, then it can equally start another one, especially of that one is smaller and easier to turn. No 'help' from the alternator needed.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Don't do it with the car engine running. But for different reasons than those stated.

In short, if the cars voltage regulator is set at, say, 14.8v and the bikes is set at 14.5v and you attach the car to the bike, the bikes regulator will try to regulate the car alternator output. The car will keep upping its output (you'll hear it rev up), the bikes regulator will keep trying to dump it. The car will win.

Thank you, I felt it would have been churlish to say "...for reasons that stinkwheel will explain later."

Even if apocryphal, my thinking is that it's the battery providing the amps, not the alternator. Unless it's some 800cc clownmobile trying to start a Rocket III, or the car battery is in poor condition itself, why risk cooking your regulator?
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P.
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

weasley wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
...he Rover 25 GTi I was using wouldn't give you any juice from the battery until you started the car. The immob would remove the +12v. Cheap alarm eh.


Errrr, wut?! The battery is 12v across the terminals regardless of what the car does (besides shorting it and draining it).

I jump start with the donor off... if the battery in the donor is capable of starting its own engine happily, then it can equally start another one, especially of that one is smaller and easier to turn. No 'help' from the alternator needed.


Should have stated, you can't connect direct to that battery, it was "moved" to the boot, but had a large metal part at the front for connecting jump leads, car needed to be running though and to get to the battery you needed to remove half of the car.

No idea why he moved it. No idea why you only got power with the car started.

Either way, I've jumped many bikes with many cars, I cannot really see an issue connecting one for 20 seconds whilst the car is running.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Don't do it with the car engine running. But for different reasons than those stated.

In short, if the cars voltage regulator is set at, say, 14.8v and the bikes is set at 14.5v and you attach the car to the bike, the bikes regulator will try to regulate the car alternator output. The car will keep upping its output (you'll hear it rev up), the bikes regulator will keep trying to dump it. The car will win.


Will the regulator dump from the DC side though? I thought that the regulator measures DC but dumped AC to regulate the DC output.

EDIT: A search suggest the same:

https://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/technical-articles/how-motorcycle-charging-system-works
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andys675
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

used to start my Z550 off the wife's metro 1.0L

and when I used to repair peugeot scooters sometimes the customers didn't come back for them until the end of the week, so
I used to jump them off a 5 amp car charger.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one for you lot then!

Never had a problem jumping off a car battery before but earlier this year my new Absorbed glass mat battery that had flattened after being stood for three months would not jump off a Ford Transit.
These things will only charge on a miniscule AH rate so just assume that a big battery has too much grunt for it to handle - but if anyone knows better it'd be interesting to know.
I was stuck for two days whilst the battery trickle charged from about 8v holding to 14+. Not had problems since but it'd be nice to know why it wouldn't jump off the battery. It was never a problem giving the previous lead acid battery a jump! ???
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Here's one for you lot then!

Never had a problem jumping off a car battery before but earlier this year my new Absorbed glass mat battery that had flattened after being stood for three months would not jump off a Ford Transit.
These things will only charge on a miniscule AH rate so just assume that a big battery has too much grunt for it to handle - but if anyone knows better it'd be interesting to know.
I was stuck for two days whilst the battery trickle charged from about 8v holding to 14+. Not had problems since but it'd be nice to know why it wouldn't jump off the battery. It was never a problem giving the previous lead acid battery a jump! ???


I'd go with it not having been connected up properly. Hooking up the jump leads to a transit battery should see it start and run regardless of the state of the battery fitted to the bike (and the starter ought to FLY round with the cranking amps available from a transit). If the fitted battery was defective, it might die again as soon as you remove the jump leads but it ought to start and run when connected.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:

Will the regulator dump from the DC side though? I thought that the regulator measures DC but dumped AC to regulate the DC output.

EDIT: A search suggest the same:

https://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/technical-articles/how-motorcycle-charging-system-works


I always thought the SH type regulators worked on a zennor? A zennor would pretty much have to be DC by virtue of being a diode.
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brains_t
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 16 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeddy11 wrote:
Think i read about this,with smart charge the problem comes on a jump start, when the PCM sees a cold engine, and then a poor battery condition, and can then instantly zap out about 18 volts because its trying to recover the battery. Unfortunately this sudden surge can cook modules.

Thus cooking your bike ! clever system that charges harder when colder or something....


sickpup wrote:
brains_t wrote:
This is so important as some alternators on cars like mine can fry other vehicle electrics due to the smart charge systems


Please explain further?



My car can whack out up to 24 volts in these circumstances (Ford S-Max) this would fry most car circuits, so if I have to jumpstart another it needs to be done with the engine not running. It may not charge the battery at startup because other systems need the power fron the alternator (heated screens etc) so the red battery warning light for the first few minutes is not an issue, so would have time to attend the burning bike.
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