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| EazyDuz |
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 EazyDuz World Chat Champion

Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Karma :  
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:04 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Personally, I would always opt for fuel injection. Lower maintainance, fewer wear parts, higher reliability, automatic cold start enrichment (and idle-up too very often) and easier to adjust for changes such as fitting a different exhaust can.
Carbs are old hat, get yourself into the 21st century. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| Musketeer |
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 Musketeer World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Jun 2011 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:15 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Main downside is when fuel injected system fails it's likely to cost more to fix compared to carbed one. But it's less likely to fail so depends how unlucky you are
Carbed system is very easy to diagnose and fix.
I think we don't have much choice anyway and all new and decent bikes are fuel injected. ____________________ Current Bike: Yamaha XSR900 Previous bikes: Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade, Kawasaki ZX-6R Ninja, Aprilia RS125 2-stroke |
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| jjdugen |
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 jjdugen World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Karma :   
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| c-m |
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 c-m World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 May 2006 Karma :   
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 Posted: 17:25 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| jjdugen wrote: | When all is good, FI does have considerable advantages. Trouble is, that advantage relies on any number of sensors telling the ECU the truth. If any of them decides to go on strike, into limp mode you go.
You are also reliant on a fuel pump pressurising the fuel rail, and the pressure regulator doing its job. That FI works at all in the hostile environment of a motorcycle does speak volumes for their robustness, but I always have that nagging doubt in the back of my mind.
Carbs can be fixed at the side of the road, usually its only a bit of crap in a jet, I know which I favour. |
Fuel injection is more than a century old technology, and used in mission critical applications such as fighter aircraft during WW2, where failure would of meant death.
Most fuel injection systems will run to default parameters if data from sensors isn't received. So limp home mode is hardly limping.
Many people talk of the ECU when discussing fuel injected bikes, but carb bikes have an ECU too, and a fuel pump.
In fact the mechanical fuel pump in a carb bike is more likely to fail than the electrical pump in an FI bike which is usually fully immersed in the tank. |
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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| temeluchus |
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 temeluchus World Chat Champion

Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Karma :    
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| mailee |
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 mailee Spanner Monkey
Joined: 15 Dec 2012 Karma :    
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 Posted: 18:31 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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I am against any electronics on bikes. Just too much to go wrong and when they do it can cost an arm and a leg!  |
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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 trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion

Joined: 22 Nov 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 18:52 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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I've got a few bikes, none FI. The injected stuff I've ridden has usually felt snatchy, surgey, or - at best - not as smooth as carbs. Having said that, one of my bikes isn't always overly well-behaved - bogs easily, feels fluffy in fourth, fifth at 7-8k. Shit like that. Could be electrical...I guess. But seems like a fuelling thing to me, and probably carbs. Dicky float needle or something - tap on the side with a rubber hammer routine, blah. And also, had a little burn on Fifteen15's fairly newish gsxr the other day and that's as smooth as owt. So - mixed picture for me...but erring towards a preference for the old, biblical methods. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125 |
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| CaNsA |
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 CaNsA Super Spammer

Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Karma :   
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 20:22 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| Quornholio |
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 Quornholio World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Jun 2011 Karma :     
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| chickenstrip |
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 chickenstrip Super Spammer

Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :    
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:14 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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I'd have a decent FI system over a carb. The GS is fine, with smooth low speed fuelling.
However, I'd have a carb over a ropey FI system. The local Chinese bike dealer won't touch cheap FI bikes any more after having too many problems with them. My Enfield is just about the last of the carbies, which was by mild inclination. Carb tickling and choke jiggling is part of connecting with the bike holistically and then we sync our periods. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Pigeon |
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 Pigeon World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:26 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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The FI on the 2013 Striple is a little on/off. What's confusing about it (for me at least) is that around town and pulling away it seems totally seemless, gradual and predictable, but once your up and running it's more difficult.
Hard to describe, but off/on is about right. Your either making progress or backing off. And during spirited riding, a fast closed throttle coming barrelling into a corner results in a delayed surge in power. It's fairly minor, but noticeable (albeit only after an hour or so).
It could just be me, but after 3,000 miles I'd have hoped to be "doing it right".
I've only very limited experience, but the 14 year old carb'd, neglected SV has a more manageable (less sensitive) throttle than the Striple.
I'm making it sound worse than it is. It's more an issue of something not being as perfect as it could be, rather than something that is wrong. |
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| Alex A |
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 Alex A World Chat Champion

Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Karma :   
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| MarJay |
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 MarJay But it's British!

Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :     
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| MarJay |
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 MarJay But it's British!

Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :     
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 Posted: 21:32 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| Pigeon wrote: | The FI on the 2013 Striple is a little on/off. What's confusing about it (for me at least) is that around town and pulling away it seems totally seemless, gradual and predictable, but once your up and running it's more difficult.
Hard to describe, but off/on is about right. Your either making progress or backing off. And during spirited riding, a fast closed throttle coming barrelling into a corner results in a delayed surge in power. It's fairly minor, but noticeable (albeit only after an hour or so).
It could just be me, but after 3,000 miles I'd have hoped to be "doing it right".
I've only very limited experience, but the 14 year old carb'd, neglected SV has a more manageable (less sensitive) throttle than the Striple.
I'm making it sound worse than it is. It's more an issue of something not being as perfect as it could be, rather than something that is wrong. |
It's because FI does not fuel the engine on a closed throttle unless the bike is idling. So if you shut the throttle at high speed and use engine braking no fuel is pumped through. The time the new fuel takes to get to the cylinders is known as the 'transport time'. The hesitation you feel is down to the transport time of this bike. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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| Irn-Bru |
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 Irn-Bru World Chat Champion

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Karma :   
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| Pigeon |
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 Pigeon World Chat Champion

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| Shaft |
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 Shaft World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:56 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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At work, we seem to spend half our time plugging in bits of diagnostic equipment, trying to fix running faults of various kinds.
We don't often replace injectors, but the sensors and ECMs are a different story and they are often stupidly expensive.
I'll take carbs every time. ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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| Shaft |
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 Shaft World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 18:37 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| Pete. wrote: | | Shaft wrote: | At work, we seem to spend half our time plugging in bits of diagnostic equipment, trying to fix running faults of various kinds.
We don't often replace injectors, but the sensors and ECMs are a different story and they are often stupidly expensive.
I'll take carbs every time. |
This is not surprising. A high proportion of bikes owned by people who take dealer servicing are going to be fuel injected nowadays, and the ratio is always going to increase in favour of FI since that's what's selling new. If there's a fault, your going to be run diagnostics. You aren't going to do that on a bike with no faults, therefore more and more of your time is going to be spent doing just that. |
I actually work in the car game, where FI has been standard for far longer, so of course that's going to make up the majority of vehicles that I see,
My point was more to do with the fact that major and expensive faults are not as uncommon as most people would like and, in addition, I don't need to use thousands of pounds worth (that you, as the customer, are paying for) of diagnostic equipment on a carb.
As I said before, the problem with FI isn't necessarily with the basic injection system, it's all the other associated gubbins, like sensors, fuel pumps, ignition components, all of which have had to become more precise and complex.
Perfect example today, a Triumph Vitesse and a Renault Megane, both misfiring and running like crap.
A new set of plugs, a tweak of the carbs and the timing, all done in an hour on the Vitesse, running like a Swiss watch.
Same result with the Renault, still only took an hour, but this time it took 4 grands worth of tool to diagnose and 4 stick coils and a Lambda probe to fix, at a cost of 200 quid. ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| Enduro Numpty |
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 Enduro Numpty Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 31 Oct 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 19:07 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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The FI on my FJR is faultless, it'll pull cleanly from 25mph in top. No flat spots, no stutters, just instant response throughout the rev range. It does this irrespective of altitude, temperature or quality of fuel and I find it hard to imagine how it could be made better.
In spite of all that there is definitely something to be said for a bank of well set up CV carbs. I think someone earlier mentioned that it gives a bike soul and I have to agree.  |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 182 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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