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bike cornering vs car

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stranger12
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PostPosted: 06:27 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: bike cornering vs car Reply with quote
Hi All,

An interesting question came to mind and wanted to get some opinion on it .
I have had a look around and pretty much got my answer but still be nice to hear people view on this.


Do cars generally corner better than bikes ?
For instance can a cheap 10-15k car out corner a super bike?

I thing in order to turn more you need to lean more an thus more G force. I am not sure what a bike can handle but don't think it will be beyond 1G.

normal cars should be between 05. to 1 with1 being reserved for cars which are setup and have a low center of gravity .

for instance karts corner much better than cars and in my kart the cornering force can be as much as 3g or in F1 cars around 5-6g hence better result attained.

Am I seeing above all wrong ?
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Clutchy
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PostPosted: 07:06 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
A car will generally out corner a bike, for 15K I could get a car that will out corner ANY bike
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Radnor
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PostPosted: 07:07 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
You're dead right. I took my bike to the nurburgring a few years ago and while we were there I got a passenger lap in a mini. I've no idea how good the riders were but we were going round the outside litre sports bikes!
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lihp
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
4 wheels are better than 2, more stable, more traction.
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Aff
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PostPosted: 08:59 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
4 wheels are better than 2, more stable, more traction.


Much less mass to change direction though. I'm sure I've seen that the HP4 with fancy traction control on was beating most Supercars now, on straights and around corners. It's braking where bikes really suffer.
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stranger12
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
right, I thought so as when i am braking I think the stopping distance is a lot shorter on cars .

for instance coming to stop on 100 miles on my car is very quicker than the bike but maybe I am wrong.

If the bike has two discs and lighter why would braking be an issue ?

if lighter then should be able to brake faster , right ?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
stranger12 wrote:
right, I thought so as when i am braking I think the stopping distance is a lot shorter on cars .

for instance coming to stop on 100 miles on my car is very quicker than the bike but maybe I am wrong.

If the bike has two discs and lighter why would braking be an issue ?

if lighter then should be able to brake faster , right ?


You have less traction to use when braking. You're also bad at braking.

Unless your rear wheel is up you can brake harder, the limiting factor of brake performance on bikes is when the thing starts to flip over, cars don't have this limit.
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Aff
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PostPosted: 09:09 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
stranger12 wrote:
right, I thought so as when i am braking I think the stopping distance is a lot shorter on cars .

for instance coming to stop on 100 miles on my car is very quicker than the bike but maybe I am wrong.

If the bike has two discs and lighter why would braking be an issue ?

if lighter then should be able to brake faster , right ?


Bikes geometry limit them, cars tend not to rotate around the front wheels too much. Laughing

Also more contact patch and weight on the front wheels help. Along with the fact that not much can go wrong if you brake too hard in a car.

Road going superbikes don't tend to get over 1G, not sure what the GP riders pull (:edit: internet seems to think its about 1.2G).

https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/front_brake_only.jpg
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qarka
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
stranger12 wrote:

If the bike has two discs and lighter why would braking be an issue ?


Because the point of contact with the road is about the size of two credit cards. Vs a car with four square tyres, the car has far better grip. Doesn't matter if the bike has 6 discs.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Top gear did a test with an Ariel Atom (possibly) and an S1000RR and the Atom destroyed it in the corners. Bike was quicker down the straight (naturally) but in the end lost as it had to corner a lot slower.

Cars are generally quicker than bikes around a corner but a 15k car vs a 15k bike? I'd have the bike. A 15k car won't do 200mph Laughing
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Mudshark
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
cars go round corners in a much more boring fashion even if it can be faster, although karting can be fun, but I always come away feeling like someone's gone over me with a meat tenderiser
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lihp
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
sabian92 wrote:
Top gear did a test with an Ariel Atom (possibly) and an S1000RR and the Atom destroyed it in the corners. Bike was quicker down the straight (naturally) but in the end lost as it had to corner a lot slower.

You think that Top gear did a fair and honest test with no interest in scripting a part of the show?

Quote:

Cars are generally quicker than bikes around a corner but a 15k car vs a 15k bike? I'd have the bike. A 15k car won't do 200mph Laughing


Do tell. What 15k bike will do 200mph?
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stranger12
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
well lets clarify ,

I love to stick with my 15k bike as I know it will destroy everything pretty much

15K car may pass a honda 125 Very Happy

what I was trying to say was would a renault megane which can cost 10k kill a bike that is a superbike such as r6 or r1 in corners and the answer is yes.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
stranger12 wrote:


what I was trying to say was would a renault megane which can cost 10k kill a bike that is a superbike such as r6 or r1 in corners and the answer is yes.


Depends on tyres.
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Aff
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
And rider.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
And driver.
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stranger12
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
all rightly said.

there are too many variables in there.
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beardface
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
stranger12 wrote:
what I was trying to say was would a renault megane which can cost 10k kill a bike that is a superbike such as r6 or r1 in corners and the answer is yes.


You could buy a car for £500 and out corner a superbike (2.2vtec prelude with 4ws) and do 140mph Thumbs Up
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just bought an MR2 for £520.

That can out corner my ZZR6 by far. Just because cars can go faster around them, as has been mentioned
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
A bike won't be able to pull much more than 1 lateral G in the corner. Then again, most performance road cars won't do more than that either.

The difference will be mostly in the braking zone, I would suggest apex speeds wouldn't be all that different. Corner exit phase all depends on the corner type and how quickly the bike can get stood up.
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sabian92
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:

You think that Top gear did a fair and honest test with no interest in scripting a part of the show?


*shrug* Probably but it doesn't change the fact a car will always corner better simply because it has more rubber on the ground (unless that's not gone well!) and cars like the Atom have insane amounts of mechanical grip. I've driven one, it was the quickest car I've ever driven by far (and that includes cars like proper open wheel race cars). Nearly ripped my bloody head off Laughing And that was the "baby" one - they do a faster one than the one I drove (supercharged I think it is, something like 1000bhp/tonne or something silly Laughing)

PhilDawson8270 wrote:

Do tell. What 15k bike will do 200mph?


I didn't mean literally Rolling Eyes Pretty much any bike over a 250 will be faster than most cars in acceleration/top speed and any sports bike worth buying will out-accelerate supercars to 60.

Point being, you can go a lot faster for a lot less on a bike. Razz You might be a bit dead at the end of it, but that's part of the fun. Thumbs Up
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lihp
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
sabian92 wrote:

Pretty much any bike over a 250 will be faster than most cars in acceleration/top speed and any sports bike worth buying will out-accelerate supercars to 60.


You will be surprised, cars usually have a higher top speed than bikes due to better aerodynamics, nothing can be done about the large amount of turbulent air.

Modern 250s will only get to around 100mph, most modern small cars for similar price can beat that.

the CBR500 gets to around 115-120mph ish, slower than most 1.4 new cars.

The fastest accelerating of production bikes are around the 2.4 to 2.5seconds to 60 which is the same as the fast Porsches, Mclarens, Nissan GTR etc.

And also equally matched in quarter miles.

So as much as the "bikes accelerate and are faster than cars" goes, it's not true, once you get into the realms of high end cars, then bikes aren't quicker, faster or hold higher corner speeds, the only advantage they hold at that level is agility.

I do however agree that you need to spend more for the same performance with a car. (production, not modified)
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't we do this about once a year?

The ultimate performance bikes are 30s a lap slower around Silverstone than the ultimate performance cars.

Cars are better in almost every measurable way. It's the emotional stuff that you can't measure where bikes win.. ..and filtering.
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 03 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
But... BSB/WSB/GP laptimes are much closer to what is mere mortals can do on our production bikes than F1/GT drivers do vs production cars.

Is there a comparison of trackday laptimes on British tracks anywhere? That would be an interesting car vs bike comparison with 'normal' vehicles and riders/drivers
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