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Scots biker in insurance hell....

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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 01 Sep 2014    Post subject: Scots biker in insurance hell.... Reply with quote

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Paul forgot to cancel his policy, his insurance firm MCE Insurance are liable for the crash and can claim the costs from him in court.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-biker-insurance-hell-after-4141840



There are a lot of "could" and "may" but no actual "have" in that lot.. yet.
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 01 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was previously aware of such implications, that if you still possess insurance on a vehicle you no longer own, and the new owner is uninsured, then your insurance is liable.


I think it is absolutely wrong, but that is the way it is.

It is not fair on the victims not to pay out, not fair on the insurance company to make them pay out but not recover costs, and not fair on the previous owner to recover costs for an unwitting mistake and an accident that is nothing to do with them.

Unfortunately when the uninsured driver/rider kills themselves, theres not much that can be done to recover costs from them either.


The law is an ass.
Sometimes.
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 01 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, ridiculous. Sick
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 01 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people don't cancel their insurance because either:
- the cancellation cost is high and just rip off
- they want to earn one more year NCD

It's not the first case like this. I've heard about a few others. I always cancel my insurance straight away after I sell my car/bike. I didn't earn as many NCDs as I could have but at least I didn't have to live in fear that something like this will happen to me.
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Last edited by Musketeer on 11:57 - 02 Sep 2014; edited 1 time in total
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G
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Scots biker in insurance hell.... Reply with quote

MCE are pretty bad as far as insurance companies go.

But in this case it seems to be the law/deceased that are the ones being the ass.

Hardly fair to other MCE customers for their insurance to be paying out in this case.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 01:15 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if there is a "you must inform us within x amount of days if you sell the insured vehicle" clause in the policy.
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Wull
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PostPosted: 04:03 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guilty of that,I did it with the gsxr1000 I sold last year and the car I sold back in April/may.

I won't be making that mistake ever again Shocked
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 06:28 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Scots biker in insurance hell.... Reply with quote

G wrote:
MCE are pretty bad as far as insurance companies go.

But in this case it seems to be the law/deceased that are the ones being the ass.

Hardly fair to other MCE customers for their insurance to be paying out in this case.


It seems quite fair to me - all other customers would also be insured against this risk. For pennies.

It seems even more fair that MCE are paying it out considering that the UK accident rate is one of the lowest in the world (despite all these crash for cash scams we hear of), yet the insurance cost is certainly not one of the cheapest!

Clearly MCE have pushed 'approved paint', 'lawyer referral' and similar schemes to breaking point and are now trying to squeeze out of every possible outlying case.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 06:38 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
I wonder if there is a "you must inform us within x amount of days if you sell the insured vehicle" clause in the policy.


Well given there is a clause that says "You must inform us of any changes to circumstances"

And when taking out the policy you declare you are the registered keeper....

Selling the bike and transferring over the V5 (registered keeper) then NOT telling them is a breech of the policy.

Perhaps this needs taking to FOS. That when changing vehicle and taking out a new policy (or just changing details) that no admin fee is payable.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:04 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

TFA wrote:
Scots [...] in hell

QFT.

iooi wrote:
Perhaps this needs taking to FOS.

I think we're way beyond that now.

MCE are correct about the way that the law is written, and we have highlighted this risk several times.

You are correct that it's eye-wateringly unfair for brokers to charge us "cancellation" fees in order to remove the underwriter's liability.

For the price of a stamp and a free proof of posting, you could get evidence that you could put before a court to back up a firm assertion that you informed the broker in writing that they should cancel the cover.

Note carefully that I make no suggestion about to what the stamp should actually be attached.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 08:12 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand all this talk of MCE being the insurer and claiming the money back.

MCE are just a broker. They arrange insurance with a real insurance company. That's how they make their money. The insurance isn't actually underwritten by MCE.

It's the real insurance company that has to pay and/or chase up getting it back. MCE are just acting as the insurer's pimp.
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y2blade
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PostPosted: 08:20 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an idiot Laughing

I expect the swetty didn't want to pay the cancellation fee and thought he was being smart


dumbass
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note how the word "forgot" is being used.

MCE have to prove that the guy intentionally set out to deceive them by not notifying them of a change.

iooi wrote:
Well given there is a clause that says "You must inform us of any changes to circumstances"


Obviously, but is there a time frame for the notification to be made?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
Obviously, but is there a time frame for the notification to be made?

Yes: within a reasonable one.

What constitutes reasonable is for a court to decide.

I hope it doesn't come to that.


G wrote:
Hardly fair to other MCE customers for their insurance to be paying out in this case.

If he had cancelled it, they MIB uninsured driver scheme would have paid out to the 3rd party anyway, and we'd all end up paying for that.

I do wonder, non rhetorically, whether it's worth asking an insurer to keep a policy running while you're between vehicles, rather than screwing you with fees and loss of partially earned NCD. Can't hurt to ask.

Well, it could hurt, but I think I will anyway, just for lulz.
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
CaNsA wrote:
Obviously, but is there a time frame for the notification to be made?

Yes: within a reasonable one.

What constitutes reasonable is for a court to decide.

I hope it doesn't come to that.


G wrote:
Hardly fair to other MCE customers for their insurance to be paying out in this case.

If he had cancelled it, they MIB uninsured driver scheme would have paid out to the 3rd party anyway, and we'd all end up paying for that.

I do wonder, non rhetorically, whether it's worth asking an insurer to keep a policy running while you're between vehicles, rather than screwing you with fees and loss of partially earned NCD. Can't hurt to ask.

Well, it could hurt, but I think I will anyway, just for lulz.



As in you have the policy continuously running and paid for, just not insuring an actual vehicle at the time?


I don't know, but some insurance companies can be fairly lenient. A friend managed to persuade one to find an underwriter willing to insure for fire & theft only whilst he was out the country. The car was kept in a shed on his parents farm, was SORN and only occasionally driven on the farm roads not the public roads, so not obliged to have 3rd party cover and even if it exploded it would only cause a few hundred pounds damage to the barn itself and no other buildings, cost about 2/3 as much as a TPFT policy would have.
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Tamsin
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Llama-Farmer wrote:

I don't know, but some insurance companies can be fairly lenient. A friend managed to persuade one to find an underwriter willing to insure for fire & theft only whilst he was out the country. The car was kept in a shed on his parents farm, was SORN and only occasionally driven on the farm roads not the public roads, so not obliged to have 3rd party cover and even if it exploded it would only cause a few hundred pounds damage to the barn itself and no other buildings, cost about 2/3 as much as a TPFT policy would have.


"Laid Up" Insurance is readily available in the classic car world....
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 11:05 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

MissTamsin wrote:
Llama-Farmer wrote:
...A friend managed to persuade one to find an underwriter willing to insure for fire & theft only whilst he was out the country....
"Laid Up" Insurance is readily available in the classic car world....

Yet when I looked into "garage" insurance for a laid up bike I was told not now available due to the now continuous insurance 'laws'.

It was the same reason given when I tried to get the day insurance for a bike that you used to get (for picking up a bike, riding to/from MOT, etc). I think the best you can get now is something like eBike's pay monthly policy.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who thinks it is the blokes fault for not cancelling the insurance?

The bike was still insured, just because he didn't own it doesn't affect that.

Would anyone be moaning that MCE were coming after him if he let his mate have a go who isn't insured and he threw it into a car? Because this is pretty much the same thing.

MCE cover the bike and must be liable for TP. Why should they be forced to take the hit when it has been riden outside the terms the insurance. Ignorance of it is no excuse.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 11:12 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
...MCE cover the bike and must be liable for TP...
No they don't. Please stop saying MCE are an insurance company. See my post above. MCE are only pimps for the proper insurance company or the eventual underwriters (which are often part of another insurance company, which are then part of a larger company, etc., etc., etc.).
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
chris-red wrote:
...MCE cover the bike and must be liable for TP...
No they don't. Please stop saying MCE are an insurance company. See my post above. MCE are only pimps for the proper insurance company or the eventual underwriters (which are often part of another insurance company, which are then part of a larger company, etc., etc., etc.).


OK replace MCE with whoever the underwriter are Rolling Eyes
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Clutchy
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh done it before, knew the risks.

Bit of a fool if you didn't know this
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iooi
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks it is the blokes fault for not cancelling the insurance?


NO Thumbs Up

Quote:

The bike was still insured, just because he didn't own it doesn't affect that..


I wonder if it could be argued that as the policy holder was no longer the owner of the bike (and we know that means increased costs). That there was a material change in the policy and as such could be revoked by the underwriter. As it was no longer with the insured person. Confused

Perhaps the whole insurance market, needs a massive shake up and its the person that holds the policy and the vehicle is just linked to the person.
Rather than now where it is the vehicle and the person is linked to that.
Would stop this type of mess from happening...
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Last edited by iooi on 12:26 - 02 Sep 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

<wrong thread, derp>
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 02 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:



I wonder if it could be argued that as the policy holder was no longer the owner of the bike (and we know that means increased costs). That there was a material change in the policy and as such could be revoked by the underwriter. As it was no longer with the insured person. Confused


I'm sure it would however it doesn't mean they weren't liable at the time of the accident.

iooi wrote:

Perhaps the whole insurance market, needs a massive shake up and its the person that holds the policy and the vehicle is just linked to the person.
Rather than now where it is the vehicle and the person is linked to that.
Would stop this type of mess from happening...


The only change IMO that is worthwhile making is stopping insurance companies from charging you to cancel a policy (pay monthly obviously would need to be different)

Other than that I think the insurers have done nothing wrong. THEY are responsible for it under the law, they will have to pay out for the TP. By all means chase the person that took out the policy.

If they changed this there would be a spate of people insuring cars then selling them to other people (for whom maybe insurance would be more expensive) then saying well it isn't my car anymore, when they have a smash leaving the TP to chase the MIB


TL;DR its fine as it is, Scots Biker is a tool for not cancelling his insurance.
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