Hailing TeflonMike - Jinlun/CB125TDR Hash together

[the_jinxster]

Hi all,

First of all thanks for the accept into the forum, I haven't been riding for long but I am taking on projects to learn all I can.

I own a Jinlun 125-11 Texan, yes I know, Chinese bikes are s*it, I have learnt my lesson(s), literally, and for that I am really glad I did start out with something cheap, means if I brake things its not a major loss. At the time I fell in love with the looks and style and I had next to no money. I hope you can accept me nonetheless!

I have been attempting to make some improvements to my oriental mistress, part of which includes trying to fit the Honda CB125TDR Superdream engine to it.

All has gone quite swimmingly, mounted and installed with relative ease. Everything seems a good match until the wiring...

I have been reading all I can on this forum for the last few days in regards to the CB. It has been helpful in narrowing down my issues along the way.

The crunch of it seems to be that the CB had only one CDI whilst my Jinny has 2, all other wires seem compatible with the exception of the stator to the CDI unit wires. There are 3 wires from the CB engine stator, a Blue, a White, and a Black wire with a red cuff. On my Jinny there are only two wires from the stator, a Red/Black and Red/Green.

I am looking for any advice where I can convert/ make compatible the CB engine wiring, perhaps using a compatible CDI to control both coils. I am new to all this so unsure.

I noticed that TeflonMike knows his stuff when it comes to the Honda CB's but I am unsure how to hail him and perhaps someone else can also help.

If I have been completely stupid and this isn't possible, so be it , I have learnt a lot along the way!

Thanks in advance!

[wr6133]

I used to have a 125-11 and always wondered about if this could be done... some pictures would be nice.

I also had a 250-5 and that used a single CDI (but was a twin), maybe a JL250-5 loom would work for you? I may still have a 250-5 wiring diagram somewhere, I'll look for it tomorrow to see what the stator wires were.

[Raffles]

[nowhere.elysium]

[nightshaddow]

it depends on which model of the cb you have, i have had the cb 125 tdc tde and tdj and they all had 2 coils so firstly what model jinny do you have?

you wanna hash 2 bikes together we gonna need alot more info

are you sure the cb has the original engine (CD and CM 125 look very similar as does the ca)
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[temeluchus]

[Teflon-Mike]

The Benly engines, as a rule, have 360 degree cranks; there's two revs per combustion cycle, or 720 degrees, so that means that both pistons are at TDC or BDC at the same time, (there's 'zero' degrees of crank rotation between the crank-pins) but they are always two 'strokes' infront or behind each other.

The Benley Engines, as most small honda's and in fact most motorbikes, employ what's known as the 'lost-spark' ignition system. Basically rather than as was conventional on a car engine that used a 'distributor' to time the spark ad send it to the right cylinder's spark plug, once per combustion cycle; it times the spark off the crank-shaft and lets it fire the plug(s) every rev; if the ignition is timed, say 4Degrees Before Top Dead Centre, then, the plug fires at 4 degrees before the piston gets to the top of the compression stroke, to set the fire to push the piston back down on the power stroke. Piston comes back up on exhaust, and the 'stupid' ignition system doesn't know a sparks not needed and fires the plug again, 4 degrees before top dead.. of course there's thing i the pot but smoke for it to set fire too, so it doesn't do much, hence is 'lost'; but saves having to get all complicated timing the sparks off the cam or anything.

Conveniently, IF you have a 360 timed parallel twin, like a little Honda Benly.. means that you only have to have one trigger to fire the sparks; and you only need to have one coil; just needs to be connected to two spark-plugs; This will then put a fire in the hole of both pots at the same time, and one will be when its needed, a few degrees before top dead centre on the compression stroke, and set the fire for the power stroke; the other will be 'lost' in the smoke of the exhaust stroke... next rev, which spark sets the fire and which is 'lost' swaps, and all is well.

Trouble with 360 twins, though is they are a bit vibey; both pistons going up and down together, it's like having a big single, all the weight goes one direction or the other at the same time, and there's thing to 'balance' it out... which was why the 400 (and consequently the sleeved down 250) Super-Dream had a balancer shaft....

The little 125 Benley, though, two moped sized pistons, not really an issue; certainly not when rated at 10bhp or so, and reving to less than 10,000rpm.

That is, till they decided to make a 'twn-carb' sports version, and to try and get more power from the damn thing than they did the 200cc version.. make it rev to 14+ooo rpm.. THEN it starts to get a bit vibey, and like to shale itself to bits!

So the CB125 Engine is the rougue in the family; it has a 180 degree crank, which is to say that the crank pins are 180 about, so one piston is 'up' when the other is 'down'; one stroke ahead, three strokes behind.... power pulses aren't as 'even' but the weight of one piston going up is sort of balanced a bit by the one coming down, so at revs it Is a 'smoother' engine.

Does mean you need to revise the ignition system though; you can still use a 'lost-spark' ignition, but you can no longer use a comon timing trigger on the crank, and common 'syamesed' coil to fire both plugs at the same time. If you did, you'd get a 'good' spark a few degrees before TDC on the compression stroke of one cylinder, but you'd be sticking the 'lost' spark into a pot, either a few degrees before bottom dead center on the power stroke, which might not be too much of problem and still be 'lost' in smoke; OR, what would be rather uhelpful, you'd be setting fire to the charge JUST sucked o the bottom of the induction stroke, and i either case only runing properly on one cylinder.

Answer is pretty self evident; you have to use two totally separate coils, one for each cylinder, so they can fire independently at separate timings, AND you need some-way of triggerig them at the right time; and the simplest way of doing that is to just have two triggers 180 degrees about on the crank-shaft.

Which is all a lot of anticipated pre-amble to explain that IF you have an actual CB125 Engine not a CD or CM motor between 125 and 234cc.. should have twin-trigger, twin CDi ignition system.

If as you describe you DONT have a twin CDI ignition.... poses suggestion you DON'T actually have a CB engine....

Next up.... the 'stator' wires.... The CB125 has three yellow wires from the three charging windings on the stator going direct to the Regulator/Rectifier.

The Ignition is 'self exited', which means it takes its power direct off the generator and has its own windings on the stator to power up the CDi units; working on the magneto-principle, AC current is taken down a solid blue, and a solid white wire; the AC pulse lasts 180 degrees of crank rev, so is a CD voltage as far as the ignition is concerned; these two wires feed BOTH CDi units.

The CDi is 'triggered' by a pair of induction coils, when a lug on the rotor passes them. They are separate from the stator, and spaced 180 degrees about the rotor to fire the sparks independently for each pot. They have a common green/white earth wire, isolated from the bikes common earth circuit; there's then a blue with yellow stripe wire for one trigger, a white with yellow stripe wire for the other.

The answer to your conundrum IS to be found the books; both by Haynes, the first that for the CB125 Super-Dream, the other the one for Four-Stroke Chinese 125's; The Wirig Diagrams they contain and a little prodding and poking with a Multi-Meter.

You NEED t be sure what you have to start with; as you have discovered, Honda used a common crank-case bolt pattern, on the CG OHV family of engines, the CB/XL OHC single engines, as well as the Benley OHC Twin motors, carried over to the Chinese copies ad their variants on them; that allows almost any of them to be swapped between genuine Honda and Chinese clone, copy or variant frames, very easily... BUT the devil is in these little details and revisions and differences, that offer perms and combs that run to gazzilons!

You could have a 12v CDi ignition CB125 Super-Dream engine.... You could have a 6v poits igition CB125T engine; you could have a 6v points CM or CM engine; a 12v and CDi CD or CM engine; of EVEN a 'splay-port' CG sigle motor, that was stuffed to the Super-Dream frame for some rice-markets ad found its way here with Honda badges on it!

First check what you got; pull the plugs ad turn the motor over o the rotor-bolt, and use a bic-biro through the plug-hole to find t of its 'one-up' or 'both up' crank-timed on the pistons. (and to make sure its not a bludy splay-port singe!)

I would try cleaning the two wires you mentio; the blue one and the white one, with white spirit, to see if there's a faded yellow stripe on them both.....

And I would put a multimeter on 'continuity' between the end of the black wire with the red collar, and the earth point, and play with the gear-lever... I suspect that is the Neutral Warnig Lamp Switch....

THEN, I would probably fuck off the Jinlun CDI's and coils, and fit the FULL ignition system from the engine you are fitting to the frame, rather than eff-about trying to mix and match; JUST to climate variables.... its an almost completely 'stand-alone' system; as said, it's powered independent of the battery off the magneto; timed from the magneto; and the only 'wire' that goes anywhere to anything else on the bike, is (o a Super-Dream) a black-white wire, common to both CDi's that 'makes' a circuit to the chassis earth when the ignition switch is 'off', that 'earths' the AC feed from the power-windings the mag, to kill the sparks.

But it's your mongrel, bastardise as you see fit; answers are in the books.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Iain.]

It doesn't even fit on my screen.

https://i.imgur.com/iwDU4W3.jpg

[the_jinxster]

Thank you all for the replies.

I have yet to go home and take some photos but the engine I have mounted to my jinny frame is this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271625609395?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It is 180, I noticed the pistons being out of sync when attempting to do the tappets, I didnt want to risk busting a gasket so was attempting to wing it by placing a small rod into the spark plug hole to find tdc. However the rod got pinched and luckily I was able to retrieve it before it sheered!

The Jinlun does have the two CDI units, attached a wiring diagram I was provided here:

I will try get my hands on a multimeter soon to check that possible neutral switch.

One possible solution that was posed to me to avoid having to fit the full ignition system would be to first see if the left hand casing (stator) from the jinlun engien will fit onto the cb engine, something I am yet to do and wanted your thoughts.

Thanks again!

[the_jinxster]

Red/Green on the Jinlun is from Stator: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stator-for-Jinlun-Texan-125-JL125-11-/310833655189?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item485f212d95

[Teflon-Mike]

I've just been to the dentists, and made to fill out fifty forms triplicate; under strobing florescent lighting; my dydlexia has blinded me! I am NOT going to try and follow that wring diagram for you!

Looks like it's pretty similar and you may be able to splice the two without swapping the generators or using the CB's CDi's or regulator... seems to be same three wire charge circuit' looks like same triggers, only difference appears to be that the Junlin CDI's take three wire feed from the unregulated charge supply, rather than fro thier own winding the stator.

Get the books, play spot the difference, crack out a multi-meter; make some twisty connections to test your hybridisaton & test, if good make good with soldering iron and connectors.

Your mongrel.. your problem...

WHY do dentists shine a fucking big flood-light in your eyes like the Gestapo? THEN shove a miniature plastic garden rake and hose pipe in your gob.. THEN ask you a question? WHAT THE FUCK DO THEY EXPECT YOU TO SAY! "Hurafucgginghurtingshmeesldwownzing!"

THAT is my 'problem' for the day... I'll leave you with yours!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[the_jinxster]

Haha! Cheers Mike! I'll have a crack at it. It's a good job I didn't post all that at 2:30 then eh! Get well soon

[Commuter_Tim]