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Funky Clutch + Idol Speed..

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NJD
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Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Funky Clutch + Idol Speed.. Reply with quote
Hi all,

Bike: Lexmoto Arrow 125cc

Recently had the clutch adjusted by my dealerships / shop mechanic moving the biting point closer to the handlebar and increasing the overall free play.. as I've booked my Mod 1 next week on my own bike I don't want to mess around with it just yet.. but just a couple of things..

I start the bike up.. put my helmet and gloves on (and had been told this was enough time to let the bike warm up before riding of and taking it easy), so I do the above.. get on the bike, pull the lever in and shift down into 1st gear.. the bike jolts forward quite harshly.. go back into neutral and do the same again and it doesn't happen.

In slow moving traffic where slow control is no longer possible due to dead stop traffic I've got the clutch lever pulled in attempted to go form 2nd to 1st sometimes the gear indicator goes blank or takes a couple of tries (only happened a couple of times).

Also..

Commuting home in fairly cold weather and the bike felt like it wanted to cut out (while in start/stop traffic).. come to the conclusion that it was so cold the engine wasn't able to keep up to temp and the idol speed of 1,500rpm was to low.. just revved it a little and did everything to keep it heated up (no major running issues).

Is it worth increasing the revs from 1,500rpm to 2,000rpm.. can't help but feel that the engine is running a little cold causing it be a little jerky in terms of power on some (not all) rides.

Thanks in advance for all responses.
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smallfrowne
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Joined: 25 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds like there might be a bit too much free play now - there might not be enough leverage to completely disengage the clutch.

My cg125 does the same jolt when changing into first (as do a lot of other bikes) after it's been stood a while, but not being able to fully pull the clutch in will make it worse. Tighten it up a smidge gradually and see if makes any difference. Believe the correct setting is 10-20mm measured from handlebar to lever tip - but I just set it so that a bit of free play exists (my lever is bent, can't measure) and not much more, you can feel the lever tightening the cable in the first part of the pull, it shouldn't be tight to start with.

The idling issue might be related if the clutch is dragging, so that it stalls (or nearly does) due to having a load on the engine. Does it do the same in neutral?
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NJD
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Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
smallfrowne wrote:
Sounds like there might be a bit too much free play now


As well as adjusting the clutch the mechanic adjusted the arm so there was room for adjustment on the lever.

I adjusted the clutch quite far out now it's the opposite, let go of the lever and it engages instantly.. "soft" is one way to describe it I guess.


smallfrowne wrote:
My cg125 does the same jolt when changing into first (as do a lot of other bikes) after it's been stood a while, but not being able to fully pull the clutch in will make it worse.


The most my bike sits is for a couple of days, but even after only leaving it a few hours (4-5) it will jerk forward when first engaged.

You saying "not pulling the clutch in fully" does remind me that when I let the clutch lever out it the bike starts to roll forward (combined with the throttle) it then feels like milliseconds latter there's something else happening in the lever as if there is two biting points.

I have also noticed on my last ride that it felt like revs where not falling quick enough like the engine was still getting power despite the throttle being closed and breaks/clutch being pulled in.. (however I do aim to keep an eye on this over the next few rides as hasn't been a issue before and could have just been me being tired and not using the controls properly).

smallfrowne wrote:
Does it do the same in neutral?


After start-up procedure is done and I allow it to warm up and idol on it's own it finds 1,500rpm fine and sits there happily, engine doesn't sound underpowered or funky.

Also it has only ever felt like it wanted to stall in cold weather on the rare occasion, not sure if this was before or after the adjustment.. more a question of "would it hurt to put the idol speed upto 2,000rpm given the increase in weather?".

I do have the 3rd service within 100 miles so am more than happy to wait until then to get them to fiddle around and make it a little tighter.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The clunk first thing in the morning is quite normal.

If you're having trouble selecting gears after adjusting the clutch to give you too much free play, adjust it back to have the right amount of free play.

Keep the idle speed where it was meant to be. If the bike is struggling to maintain idle it is possible that the mixture setting is out, particularly on a 125 where children fail to understand how a mixture screw works. Set it according to the workshop manual, probably something like two turns out from fully screwed in.

If you turn up to a low-speed maneuvers test with a bike idling at 2000rpm, you'll likely to be disqualified for having a vehicle that isn't in a roadworthy condition.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Re: Funky Clutch + Idol Speed.. Reply with quote
NJD wrote:
moving the biting point closer to the handlebar and increasing the overall free play..

I'd go for a minimum of free play. Just enough so that the actuator lever on the clutch housing definitely isn't being pulled until you pull the lever at the bars.

As in: slacken it off until the actuator on the clutch housing stops moving and there's clear slack in the mechanism. Tighten up to take the slack out. Continue to tighten and watch for the actuator lever just starting to move. Slacken off a touch until it relaxes. Done.

This takes about as long to do as to describe and it's very straightforward.


NJD wrote:
shift down into 1st gear.. the bike jolts forward quite harshly.. go back into neutral and do the same again and it doesn't happen.

Normal. This is the clutch plates unsticking. All bikes do it to some extent.

You could try (before starting it up) pulling in the clutch and kicking it to see if this unsticks the plates. This works on Enfields where the kick starter goes via the clutch, but I can't recall how the kick starter is plumbed on the CG. Worth a try.


NJD wrote:
I've got the clutch lever pulled in attempted to go form 2nd to 1st sometimes the gear indicator goes blank or takes a couple of tries (only happened a couple of times).

I'd tighten the cable, as above.


NJD wrote:
Is it worth increasing the revs from 1,500rpm to 2,000rpm.. can't help but feel that the engine is running a little cold causing it be a little jerky in terms of power on some (not all) rides.

I'd expect it to be fuelling rather than temperature.

Have you tried adjusting the idle mixture screw? It's the small brass screw at the front of the carb pointing downwards: you'll need a short screwdriver (or just use a screwdriver bit) to turn it.

Warm up, adjust the mixture screw in 1/4 turn increments in both directions until you've found the fastest idle speed.

I'd wind it all the way in first and count the number of turns so that you can put it back to where you started if you get lost.

I found that my HN was happier above 1500 rpm, although as it put miles on, it got happier idling more slowly.
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NJD
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Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Re: Funky Clutch + Idol Speed.. Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Normal. This is the clutch plates unsticking. All bikes do it to some extent.


Could be a result of commuting through winter and finding out that my clutch had corroded early January, fixed by the dealership but could be a direct result of the above.. if so nothing really that can be done at this point.

Doesn't cause an issue when out and about on the roads between shifts and only happens directly once after start-up so isn't a major issue and shows no signs of leading onto further problems.. just didn't happen before the adjustment so wondered if it was a result of to much free play.

Rogerborg wrote:
Have you tried adjusting the idle mixture screw?


Not yet, unless the dealership have adjusted on a service then it has stayed the same as factory set it to.. I can only assume adjusting the idol speed and not the mixture screw is a recipe for my explanation of possible issues.

Rogerborg wrote:
I found that my HN was happier above 1500 rpm, although as it put miles on, it got happier idling more slowly.


Manual recommends 1,400rpm although previously it had been set to 1,000 (god knows why).. certainly runs smoother now than it has done in the past.

(if only the poor gear linkage design wasn't present.. poor bike Crying or Very sad )
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Re: Funky Clutch + Idol Speed.. Reply with quote
NJD wrote:
just didn't happen before the adjustment so wondered if it was a result of to much free play.

Could very well be. With more slack on the cable you're not pulling the plates apart as hard.

It takes seconds to adjust the cable tension. I've done it on the move (not a recommendation, an observation).


NJD wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Have you tried adjusting the idle mixture screw?

Not yet, unless the dealership have adjusted on a service then it has stayed the same as factory set it to..

Don't assume that's ideal. Carbs are fairly crude and do benefit from tuning. I'd heard that these bikes come set lean to get through Euro 3 emissions, and mine did indeed benefit from richening.

It's another very simple, very quick job that you can perform easily yourself and you'll likely do a better job of it than a dealer who has no real vested interest in getting your bike running perfectly.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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NJD
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Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Re: Funky Clutch + Idol Speed.. Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
It takes seconds to adjust the cable tension. I've done it on the move (not a recommendation, an observation).


I tried that one to after having a bumpy commute, waiting in line for the tyre pressure.. ended up pulling the adjustment out to far and it coming out of place in a 30mph zone (locking nut wouldn't screw into place as it was to far out).

Lesson learnt.. although my mistake still runs through whenever I attempt to mess with anything.

Rogerborg wrote:
I'd heard that these bikes come set lean to get through Euro 3 emissions, and mine did indeed benefit from richening.


Stupidly lean from what I've heard.. discovered that after riding through winter with a few issues.. wouldn't go a miss for a definitive list of changes for new riders to do, took me long enough to discover different adjustments that can be made in controls.

Guess that all depends how you get into biking.

As for the mechanics settings you mention it has passed through my mind sometimes that I or any rider is able to made adjustments with more testing them rather than a default setting that doesn't work for everyone.

Last edited by NJD on 18:24 - 23 Mar 2015; edited 1 time in total
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mentalboy
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Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 23 Mar 2015    Post subject: Re: Funky Clutch + Idol Speed.. Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

Don't assume that's ideal. Carbs are fairly crude and do benefit from tuning. I'd heard that these bikes come set lean to get through Euro 3 emissions, and mine did indeed benefit from richening.


Could I respectfully suggest that you have a look at your spark plug before fiddling with the mixture screw - better still, get a piccy of it and post it here so we can see what state it's in.
Have you checked your air filter recently?
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