stabilising 12v dc (fixed)

[salty21]

hi all.

This is a very long story but the short version is i have a gremlin in my bikes electrics that doesnt show up on any tests or diagnostics, but it is enough to kill quickshifter control units. I've spoken extensively to HM quickshifters and after weeks of headscratching and me trying different parts and tests we have hit a dead end. Ive had the bike down at a honda dealer today for full diagnostics test and it showed no faults. The bike runs absolutely fine on its own but there is something happening that kills quickshifters.

I was doing a bit of brainstorming with the honda mechanic whilst i was there and we figured it must be some kind of power spike that happens too quickly for the testers to pick up on but enough to damage the circuits in the quickshifter.
When i got home i decided to run the bike with the 3 yellow genertor wires unplugged so the bikes electrics were running purely off the battery. I plugged the quickshifter back in and went for a quick ride and the quickshifter worked perfectly.

Ive tested the resistance of the 3 yellow stator wires and they all read 0 ohms resistance which i thought was strange as there is normally a bit of resistance there but it generates good power so must be working?. I also tested the reg/rec which is all good.

So what i want to do as an easy fix is to try and eliminate this power spike if that is what is happening by further stabilising the current from the red wire on the reg/rec somehow but dont really know the best way to go about this?.
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04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[WD Forte]

Has anyone inspected the failed quickshifter?
If I was HM, I'd want to know what killed it and how to make it more rugged.
( but then I wouldn't be flogging you so many )
You can add various types of filters, chokes, opto isolators, sheilding etc to the supply to the thing, but I'd start simply by checking and beefing up the grounding.
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bikers smell of wee

[Val]

Honestly I find it hard to beleive this alien high voltage peaks that can't be detected by mere humans.

Looks to me your voltage regulator is faulty.

Have you measured the voltage at all there? My educated guess it is 16V
____________________
Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900

[salty21]

The voltage never goes above 14.3v according to both my multimeter and hondas diagnostics machine. I honestly cant think of any other explanation.

the HM unit I had didnt actually break because it had a watchdog circuit to protect itself. I have since sold the unit to a friend and it works perfectly on his bike.
____________________
04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[salem1987]

Try checking if any AC voltage is leaking through to the battery with the multimeter, that i think would be undetectable at DC. And would definitely have a go at frying anything on the loom!

[BillyJ]

Get/buy/borrow a multimeter with a bargraph that can show changes quicker than the display updates.

To answer your questions, capacitors can remove high voltage spikes.
____________________
Had: '06 CBR125R + '01 GSF600 + '07 SPRINT ST 1050 + '80 CB250 RSA + '93 Ducati 900SS
Have: '13 GSXR-1000 + '01 CB500S
"The aryan confuser"

[salty21]

Would I just set the meter to ac and check across the battery for that?
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04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[Pete.]

Run the shifter off an auxiliary battery?
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stinkwheel]

[Islander]

[Taught2BCauti...]

With the battery connected, it will act like a capacitor to suppress high-voltage spikes to some extent, and they probably won't show up on a digital voltmeter.

You would need to connect an oscilloscope across the battery to see what's really going on - but I suspect the reg/rec is at fault.

You could regulate the voltage going to the shifter by first taking the live feed through a blocking diode, and using a 7812 regulator to keep the supply at a steady 12v dc.
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125(V8)
www.TheFutureIsHere.eu

[stinkwheel]

Does a 2005 CBR600RR have a mosfet voltage regulator?

Look at the serial number printed on it. It will start with either SH or FH. If it's SH, it's a zennor type, if it's FH, it's a mosfet.

If it's a zennor, replacing it with a mosfet ought to keep a tight lid on the voltage.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[salty21]

An auxiliary power supply isnt an option as the unit takes its 12v feed from the coils and cuts this feed when performing a shift if that makes sense?

The bike is a 2008 cbr600rr and has a mosfet reg rec as standard. The bike has only covered 8000 miles and never been used in any weather. All the electrical connections throughout the bike are in tip top condition.

The capacitor idea sounds like its worth a try. Do I just fit that to the 12v feed wire just before the quickshifter? What type of capacitor would I need?
____________________
04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[Islander]

One of these between +12v and gnd as close to the unit as you can manage.

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/decoupling-ceramic-disc-01uf-capacitor-n43cj

[Taught2BCauti...]

I would use a 1uf electrolytic rated at 25v, as close to the shifter as possible.

A MosFET Reg/Rec doesn't guarantee there will be no spikes or transients - they are just impossible to detect without an oscilloscope.
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125(V8)
www.TheFutureIsHere.eu

[salty21]

Cheers guys.
so to be clear, I just solder one leg to the 12v feed right next to the unit and the second leg to the ground wire next to it?
____________________
04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[Taught2BCauti...]

[salty21]

Cheers guys.
so to be clear, I just solder one leg to the 12v feed right next to the unit and the second leg to the ground wire next to it?
____________________
04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[salty21]

Just been on maplins website trying to find a 1uf electrolytic capacitor and the only ones i can find seem to be rated at 100v?
I live down the road from maplins so can nip and get one straight away
____________________
04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[stinkwheel]

Just a thought for the electrronics boffins. Would it be worth fitting a diode in paralell with the control unit?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Islander]

Don't use an electrolytic. You're trying to decouple fast transient spikes and they are not suited for that - the battery itself will deal with anything that an electrolytic would. The ceramic disc capacitors are designed specifically for this purpose.

[Islander]

[salty21]

Well I just fitted the electrolytic capacitor but the units gone pop again. Not sure if this happened last time I rode it or from todays tests but it has failed in the exact same way as last time so must have happened yesterday.
Not sure if they will send me another replacement but ive been at it so long now I dont think giving up is an option anymore. £££
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04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[Taught2BCauti...]

My thoughts were, that if the reg/rec is occasionally putting out a high enough spike to kill the shifter, it is probably a higher voltage than the battery will cope with (about 16v), and enough current to pop a ceramic disc capacitor.

If the OP lives close to Maplins, why not call in and explain the problem to one of the tech guys there, and see what they recommend. You usually find them lurking at the parts counter at the back of the store.
____________________
Honda Varadero XL125(V8)
www.TheFutureIsHere.eu

[Islander]