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Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control'

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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/01/us-aviation-authority-boeing-787-dreamliner-bug-could-cause-loss-of-control

Quote:
The plane’s electrical generators fall into a failsafe mode if kept continuously powered on for 248 days. The 787 has four such main generator-control units that, if powered on at the same time, could fail simultaneously and cause a complete electrical shutdown.



32 bit signed timer : 248.551 days = 2^31 x 10 ms

Laughing
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:

32 bit signed timer : 248.551 days = 2^31 x 10 ms

Laughing


I would wonder why they used a signed integer. Or do they expect the plane to go back in time.

All the best

K
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
I would wonder why they used a signed integer. Or do they expect the plane to go back in time.


The fix is even funnier, turn it off and back on again.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
I would wonder why they used a signed integer.

Because "int" is 3 characters and you can't teach responsibility.

When I worked in the nuke industry, we printed off the entire source code of the final delivery and every single line was individually reviewed and personally initialled by the lead engineer (real, chartered). In red.

Ask not if can you afford to do that, but if you can afford not to do it.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
and every single line was individually reviewed and personally initialled by the lead engineer (real, chartered). In red.


Checking lines isn't the problem. It is how those lines affect each individual other line that is likely to be the problem

All the best

K
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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

One would have thought there would be scheduled maintenance more often than 248 days.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
and every single line was individually reviewed and personally initialled by the lead engineer (real, chartered). In red.

Checking lines isn't the problem. It is how those lines affect each individual other line that is likely to be the problem

Making it one specific, named individual's problem did seem to bring that <you-dont-say.png> issue into sharp focus though.

If you, personally, had to put your career on the line over a delivery, no hiding behind a contract or a company or limited liability, if you were saying "I vouch for this system," would you up your game?

The chap who initialled our code didn't take "Yeah, probably," as an answer.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

That is a hope, but unless it is a fairly noddy system the chances of one person being able to actually understand it well enough for their signature to be meaningful is pretty low.

All the best

K
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:38 - 02 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunterston B doesn't go into meltdown every 248.551 days, so I'd venture to suggest there's some merit in it.

Actually, that was the backup to the backup rod drop logger, which was only done to sloppy PES 1 standards, allowing for one failure every 10 years.

On the other hand, that company did go titsup, I suspect largely due to punking out on deliveries because they ran out of red pens.
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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 04 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I maintain aircraft for a living. Not 787's I'll grant you. We have systems on our aircraft that can't run continuously. Seems to me this is far more easily solved with a simple maintenance operation than a system redesign.

Item Task 22L to be complied with (cycling the electrical generators. Calender periodicity 90 days to allow for deferment.) or some such thing.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 05 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

the guardian is such a stupid paper almost as bad as the mail,

"could cause a crash"
any thing "could" cause a crash .
pilot eats bad chicken-spews into electrics boom plane falls out of the sky,
some one trips on a piece of badly laid carpet and uses the door release handle to stop their fall which didnt have the safety connected, door opens, everybody gets sucked out, boom plane crashes.
snakes escape from the hold and try to eat every one, boom plane crashes.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 06 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Hunterston B doesn't go into meltdown every 248.551 days, so I'd venture to suggest there's some merit in it.

Actually, that was the backup to the backup rod drop logger, which was only done to sloppy PES 1 standards, allowing for one failure every 10 years.


Only a dodgy recording system so doubt anyone cares too much if it fails.

Probably good it is such a redundant system with such a worthless testing system. Probably kept the PHB happy though

All the best

K
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Rowey
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PostPosted: 01:27 - 07 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been working with 787's for a little while now, and I'll be plesently supprised if you don't have to down power the aircraft at least once a fortnight for some silly fault.
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 02:58 - 07 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of any aircraft which had GCUs powered continuously for that long anyway.

It's a non-issue, but a non-issue that shouldn't really be there anyway.


There's far worse things with aircraft going on that people don't know about (and don't need to know about) than something like this which isn't a real problem anyway.

It's like the tanks will run out of fuel if they're not filled up, not really an issue because they do get filled up... usually... with the correct metric/imperial units.
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 08 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
When I worked in the nuke industry


Why the downgrade? Shifty

I sense awesome story/Kim Jong
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 08 May 2015    Post subject: Re: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control' Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
When I worked in the nuke industry

Why the downgrade? Shifty

I sense awesome story/Kim Jong

Nope, it really was just that they made crazy, unreasonable demands that systems should actually work, while only paying government prices - and not "the Minister for Energy is about to take up a Directorship at PreferredBidderCorp" prices.

Well, they did then. For all I know now, they could be running on iPads and pulling down nightly fixes from the App Store.
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