Any plumbing and heating experts on here?

[Bubbs]

Looking for some advice on getting a system pulled together. It needs to be an oil boiler that feeds DHW and underfloor heating. I keep getting quoted stupid prices and would be more than happy sourcing the stuff myself off ebay etc.

Just need someone who really knows what they are talking about to ensure I get the right things. Would be more than happy to pay a bit of cash for some help as doing it this way will save me loads of cash in th end.

Anyway please let me know. Plumbing and heating is making me want to kill myself.
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Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

[J4mes]

No offence like but you know absolutely nothing about it, even to the point where you don't even know what you need to buy yet you want to install and commission the system yourself?

Are oil burner boilers covered by building regs? As in you need to be qualified and competent to install them?

[Bubbs]

[J4mes]

Yes, yes I did!

[Sun Wukong]

Maybe chat to Tarmacsurfer? He recently fitted an epic wood burner heating system. It was awesome.
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"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
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[Taught2BCauti...]

Did any of your quotes specify makes and models of boiler, number and sizes of radiators, etc.?

If not, there are many online calculators (like This One) that will help you calculate the total output you need from a boiler, then select the make and model of boiler to suit.

Also, Solar Water Heating Panels are fairly easy to make yourself if they are viable for your location, and can save a decent chunk on fuel costs - even if they can only be used to pre-warm the DHW. Lots of DIY guides online.

I saved a huge amount on my own central heating system by sourcing all the parts from my local Stax Trade Centre, doing all the work myself, and just paying a small fee to get it properly tested and signed-off.
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[Fowlersrs]

What do u call expensive quotes? Your generally paying for the experts to do it for a reason. Oil boilers are horrendously expensive, are u sure it has to be that and not LPG?

[Robby]

Any reason it needs to be oil? My parents old house ran on oil, they were seriously considering spending a good chunk of cash on a wood pellet system when they came out to avoid spending silly amounts of heating.

If you already have underfloor heating, then run the numbers for some kind of heat pump - either air or ground sourced. If DHW runs on a separate system, I would go for electric. A bit more expensive to run, but the heater should be a lot cheaper and have less to go wrong.

If you are going down the oil route, see if any local oil boiler servicing companies can sort you out with a second hand unit. Lots of houses are ripping out the oil systems to run air/ground source, LPG or electric.

[Tarmacsurfer]

First, I'm no expert. I have been doing a shitload of research lately though as I'm currently renovating a 16th century stone cottage with a view to making it as cheap to run (and as pleasant to live in as possible).

Firstly, why oil? Expensive install and likely to get increasingly expensive to run. You've fitted a nice floor slab with insulation that's actually above code requirements if memory serves? Working on that basis you're going to need minimal flow temps, either go with Robby's suggestion of a GS/ASHP based system with a solar array for heating domestic hot water (I'd go with a PV system, you can wangle FIT payments then to offset running/install costs). Failing that, they've cut back on the handouts for biomass stoves this year but it still makes a shitload more sense than an oil system imnsho.

I'm in the process of putting together (stage one done now, multifuel burner fitted and commisioned) an integrated system, thermal store fed via solar thermal, ASHP and when needed a 16kW burner. All outputting through an underfloor system.

Like everything, it all comes down to budget and how much work you can do yourself. But - and I'm being utterly serious here - you're building a home that's going to last you a good few years. Think very carefully about running costs, the money you can recoup from various schemes for "green" heating can make a big difference.
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.

[Bubbs]

[Robby]

If this is a temp solution, why not go electric? Should be far easier to convert to heat pump in the future - or could be supplemented with solar panels.

For oil you'll need the boiler, fitted and commissioned. You'll need a tank - not all that cheap, and it needs enough security to stop people nicking your oil.

You also need sufficient access to get the oil truck near to the tank for deliveries.

Then when you want to convert to something else, you need to get all of the oil things removed.

I think you have a few wood burning stoves, and a lot of insulation. Your additional heating requirements should be quite low.

I really hate oil-fired heating, because despite spending a silly amount on oil I still spent 20 years in a cold house. I would even consider some kind of back boiler arrangement over a wood burning stove warming the underfloor heating before installing oil.

[Tarmacsurfer]

£15k supply only sounds high on the sort of unit spec I'd expect you to be looking at, ground works are usually one of the most expensive segments of a GSHP install and if you know a bloke with a digger you can rent for a few days that cost can be brought down considerably (presuming you've got the space to run a slinky loop, bores are a different matter entirely). ASHP would run to around £7-£9k for a domestic as a rule. Biomass installed to HETAS standards and signed off at around the £5-£7k mark depending on the stove and how well you know the fitter. In rural areas it's a good idea to shop around the local chimney sweeps, you'll often find a bloke who's doing his ticket and looking for portfolio jobs, a discount often can be wangled.

All told, we're spending around 15-20k, that also includes a fair bit of prep (insulation, floor slab etc) and my skillset is being stretched considerably, learning a lot of the job as I go along. The 16kW stove install came in just under £3k including new cylinder (not using a thermal store yet, currently running a very well insulated Gledhill vented cylinder to replace the ancient copper thing that was there) and a lot of new pipework on the internals (private water supply, had some lead issues show up on the potability test). Also had to remove the old open coal fire and back boiler, fit a proper lintel and big hearth (slate, scored cheap and with a couple of favours).

Good question as to having the money, we're in very different positions in that the place won't be my home for a couple of years yet, so I have time to pull cash together and find the best prices. All I can really say is that I'd look to skimp elsewhere and get a decent heating system in now rather than fit fun stuff or high end finish and run a second hand bag of problems and expense that will make damn sure you have trouble pulling the savings together to get it replaced.

This is our place, it's two bungalows knocked together in the Scottish borders. We'll be extending upwards as it's currently all one floor at the minute, 60 degree pitch and a 3.4m ceiling means there's plenty of space after it has been dropped to a more normal height.
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.

[Tarmacsurfer]

This is what was installed when we bought the place. Early eighties at the newest, back boiler on it so managed DHW and also fed 5 radiators. As you can see from the midway pictures, there was no lintel in place (hence the old fall in the chimney breast) so I was left with a couple of pieces of 3x2 timber and a prayer to hold things up while the bloke I was working with shot off to find one.

It's a nice place though. Only mains connection is electricity, this makes me happy
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.

[Fowlersrs]

All this talk of renewables and cheap really don't go hand in hand. If your commited to a property for the long haul then there the best option for sure as ul see the return, the technology is far from cheap though.

As for oil as a temporary solution, true madness, the cost for oil systems is anything but temporary. If you want temporary you would be better off looking at LPG. Gas boilers are cheaper and you can take it off bottles any time if you so wish (best option would be to keep as back up should renewables fail)

[Bubbs]

[Tarmacsurfer]

Bottles are not so great for heating or hot water, fine for cooking. Another option if you're desperate in the short term, look at storage heaters? Can pick them up on the 'bay for very little. I bought a job lot of five or six for around £100 last year. They're currently stored away as I never got around to fitting the bloody things

As to the comment about renewables not being cheap, I agree totally. Up front cost isn't small. Running cost is a lot better though and more importantly the subsidies attached to them make things an awful lot more appealing. Those subsidies will disappear as the uptake rises but currently it's still a good place to put money.
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.

[Bubbs]

I'm pursuing renewables still... just need to scrape a few thousand together to get it going.
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Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

[Tarmacsurfer]

I feel your pain, honestly. When I initially started looking into all of the aspects of what we're doing I wanted someone to design and install everything. Cheapest quote was around £35k with one running over £50k.

Suffice to say it's been a steep learning curve, and thankfully I've had some help along the way from a friend of a friend who is actually a heating engineer, he's looked at my stupider ideas and politely pointed me in far more sensible directions.

What sort of system are you envisioning? What are the heat requirements of the property? Our system boils down to redundancy given the fact we're looking to be as self sustaining as possible and have a tenuous link to the grid. A large thermal store ties everything together - plus we're using external insulation on the rear elevation, there's a metre thick stone wall storing heat - so for milder and sunny weather a fairly small ASHP and solar will keep a steady heat coming in then for deep winter and bursts of heat to top up the tank there's the burner.
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.