Offsiding on country roads

[BBR]

Anyone know if IAM encourage off siding and using the full width of country roads to gain a view like RoSPA.

I'm not keen on doing it but it seems RoSPA are.

Just wondered if IAM are the same?

[stinkwheel]

Does it matter?

If you think it helps, then do it. If you don't, don't.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[BBR]

[Rogerborg]

Then that comes down to what your particular observer thinks.

My vague recollection is that even Roadcraft has stopped recommending it now because of the number of coppers that ended up embedded in the front of oncoming vehicles. Turns out that habitually moving towards where the danger is likely to be in order to see it coming isn't always the winning combination that it might appear.

If you're being expected to ride in a way that you disagree then you can always just walk (or ride) away from the course.

Unless you need the ticket. Blood biker?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[MCN]

Tests: For tests they will show you, the testee (that sound's like one bollock), what is required by the tester's to satisfy the opinion of their board/clique.

What is shown and what they require doesn't make it better.

Who drives/rides like they did for their test?

The advice is to ride/drive and use the road to best advantage.

The caveat there is to do so safely.
If it doesn't sound/look safe then don't do it.
Unless you can mitigate the/any risk/s.

It's a bit like the 'right of way' syndrome.
Perhaps one had the 'right of way' but that right does hee-haw to help push one's wheelchair whenever one's right is ignored by another.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[arthurmo]

I'm doing the IAM now and the mantra seems to be you never surrender safety over position. Sounds good until your interpretation of this clashes with your observer. For me it's being in the gutter on a right hander in autumn full of wet leaves and other crap.
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[Marlin]

[T.C]

As a RoSPA examiner (and former IAM examiner) I can assure you that RoSPA do not approve of offsiding since the Police abolished teaching it back in the 90's.

If someone offsides in front of me on test, I mark them down.....
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[Undinist]

Hmmm. The discouragement of offsiding is news to me - I was taught it in the early '80s and have been doing it ever since. What was the IAM policy in 2002? I took my test then, and can't remember if I offsided. I'm sure I would have done if there'd been an opportunity.
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Current bike: K1100RS. Previous: CD200, GSX250, GT550, VFR750, K100LT, K1100LT, R1100GS, R1150GS, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, RSV Mille, MV F4 750S, R1, ZX-10, KTM Adventure 950S

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[Undinist]

What's position 3?
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Current bike: K1100RS. Previous: CD200, GSX250, GT550, VFR750, K100LT, K1100LT, R1100GS, R1150GS, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, RSV Mille, MV F4 750S, R1, ZX-10, KTM Adventure 950S

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

The offside position.
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[MCN]

[MCN]

[Amber Phoenix]

[MCN]

[JP7]

I was formerly an IAM observer and was told not to train or allow offsiding. "Leave it to the police", was our guidance on the matter.

However, on my police driver training it was actively encouraged, to improve view and position round a corner. I use it, but carefully.

[Rogerborg]

Here's why I'm suspicious of it. The aim is to improve your sight round the bend. This is because in The System of Motorbike Control you should always be able to stop safely (on your own side of the road) in the distance that you can see to be clear. Or put another way, if you can see further, you can carry more speed.

Remember, The System is designed for bike coppers to make progress. You can achieve exactly the same "stop safely" outcome simply by staying on the left side and reducing speed a bit. You're on the right in order to maintain a higher "safe" speed. (Alternatively, you're over there but going slowly, which is at best pointless, at worst harmful).

What you're looking out for is a stationary or slow moving hazard on the left hand side of the road. Things on the right side, well, sure, you need to be looking for them, but they're not hazards unless they cross to the left. I mean, if you'd stayed on the left. But you didn't. So now you've made them hazards too.

Bike is you, going fast enough that you can stop in the distance that you can see to be clear (dotted line), which is just behind the red car. The red car is the stopped-in-the-road hazard that you were looking out for (emerging tractor, box of kittens), the white van is bouncing off his limiter while phoning a customer to tell him that he can't be round until a week on Tuesday, best case.

https://i.imgur.com/sXzaUhm.png

Half a second later, you spot the red car, which you're approaching at a speed that allows to you (just) stop before you hit it. Huzzah for The System.

You also spot the van which is approaching you at "fit in one more job today" speeds.

He (perhaps) sees some maniac way over on his side of the road, approaching at collision speed.

What happens next? What does the van do? What use is your "in the distance I can see to be clear" calculation now? In what way have you improved your safety? You've created a completely unnecessary lethal outcome that you now need to avoid, and you cannot do so by braking alone because you'd followed The System and set your speed based on a stationary hazard.

In fact, you now have to avoid both vehicles, which means braking hard to a stop while swerving left, and hoping White Van Man doesn't panic and try to move to avoid you.

This is an unlikely scenario, but because of the stopped car, not the van that you've turned into a hazard through your actions. I meet a lot more oncoming traffic than boxes of kittens in the road.

Rebuttals?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[P.addy]

I do find it funny that people pass their test, begrudgingly so... they then choose to sit another test that doesn't actually matter and complain about that also.

Ride and aim around the cars. 50/50

[G]

[ScaredyCat]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[MCN]

Off topic: Has the Tef kidnapped the borg's ip addy?
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[stevo as b4]

it's not much different to the arguments of:

1, Should you bang down though the gears to lose speed for a hazard, or use the brakes for what they were designed for instead?

2, Big modern sports bike with fat tyres, loads of power etc. Should you try and go apex to apex as much as possible and carry corner speed as high as you dare, or should you slow down much more, slam the bike over in a tight turn much later and get it sat upright and the throttle wide open asap?

It's all pretty irrelevant on the roads?

I used to be a member of the IAM with car's and did a load of training for the ROSPA test too. They used to say the same thing about moving within your lane for best position and view whenever possible.

Nowadays I just drive more over to the left nearly all the time, especially when in traffic in case a bike or cycle wants to come past on the outside. The same applies in reverse if your in the outside lane, I always go as close to the central reservation as possible, to make a big gap between the lanes, for anyone that wants or needs it?

[Teflon-Mike]