Not bike related : 1940/50s machine need help identifying

[nightshaddow]

OK so long story short im helping the local air museum restore/renovate a small aircraft tug.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12743921_10154007747158846_2463413202899683983_n.jpg?oh=51b797437a304b1a0762207d315d3289&oe=5728EE57
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12688131_10154007747178846_4194312438209734973_n.jpg?oh=41eb67bab37534c518747504c93e1a87&oe=572A81FA

and while the engine was easy to identify and has since been got running

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzRKv1cdUAU

the rest is not so easy and getting parts may be an issue, after removing the seized brake drums we need brake parts also needing transmition brake unseizing as well as a multitude of other possibles, so any help or info on this thing would be apprieceated

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/12742429_10154007746988846_5126856892396637598_n.jpg?oh=9f5ebec79562b6086a8ef2fe337f45d4&oe=576E8EF6
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12705657_10154007746983846_2401549507521091647_n.jpg?oh=ebcac446c9faf470cda1a1c1c09be452&oe=576E3B90
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12745730_10154007747148846_5939365347987402224_n.jpg?oh=5460d48f74b0b126d65cf71fbfa1c189&oe=5766EA3C
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"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[misscrabstick]

Nice machine! don't know if it's much help, you could assume that things like brake shoes and cylinders were sourced from parts already plentiful on the market that would be similar to other vehicles from the era, years ago we used to have brake parts catalogues that had full size drawings of the various bits, you could try and get hold of a old Lucas/Girling book and compare to what you have removed from the tug and maybe get a part number for ordering.

[Robby]

The wheels look like they could be from a 1940s-50s Rover - possibly a P4, stud pattern looks similar. With any luck the brakes should be similar.

[Vincent 2]

Is this of any use
https://www.dropbox.com/s/022byru4puxsk0k/Lucas60-68-copy.pdf?dl=0
https://www.coventryvictor.free-online.co.uk/
https://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/CoventryVictor/CovVictor1.htm

[nightshaddow]

looking at all options and robby your the second to say old rover i am looking into that now,

spagiratwink the link with coventry victor stops with the engine as the company that built the machine only used the engine from victor and that side is sorted at the moment, the dropbox link though may be very helpfull

misscrabstick that is what i am trying to do but the old books seem hard to find either in hard copy or digital format but its one avenue im looking at

kama for all
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"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[Kickstart]

Hi

Quite likely at that age the brake shoes were intended to be relined rather than just replaced. Think there are a few classic car places around who can still do that.

All the best

Katy
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[nightshaddow]

we actually managed to get the drums off and was thinking of getting the shoes relined anyway, its a cheap enough option,

my real worry is the wheel cylinders

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12715789_10154011116208846_2907903326969928570_n.jpg?oh=b7beab2770179a3fb8dedb25836db9ec&oe=576145BB
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12742314_10154011116223846_6772305464901395879_n.jpg?oh=362e621af9b99f13f7894d54a4ddc734&oe=57335CAD
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12743918_10154011116233846_4952749139357679283_n.jpg?oh=8f9881b0e02294fee07e11f695854226&oe=5768963B
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12688114_10154011116298846_535673138156601387_n.jpg?oh=a96e04aee01dc4661bc327b9637109c4&oe=572646A1

what you cant see in the pictures is the piston are very badly carroded so i believe once stripped compleately these will need replacing
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"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[Pete.]

I bet you can buy the cylinders, if not readily then with a bit of searching effort. Otherwise, a quick hone and some new pistons in fact new seals and clean the pistons with emery might bring them back.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Robby]

The pistons may be easier to replace than the shoes - the basic design has stayed identical for 70 years, so you'll have no trouble finding something that will fit.

One important safety tip that is worth following this time round - those shoes are easily old enough to contain asbestos. Gloves, face mask, plenty of brake cleaner before you touch them any more.

[Shaft]

There will be a part number and maker's name on the cylinders (I can see the makings of something in the pictures) which will make it relatively easy for a specialist to indentify.

Clean them up, take some good pictures and send them here

https://www.powertrackbrakes.co.uk/wcylinder.html

They've got me out of a few holes in the past.
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035

[nightshaddow]

as always i knew this would be the right place to ask thankyou all for the help and i will keep you posted,

if anyone has more ideas please feel free to share any help will be good and as this machine is at least 30 years older than me, well it all helps

if anyone is intrested i will post more pics and vids as it progresses
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[bikenut]

Great some more pictures.

Can i see a ford logo and 400e on the half shaft?

From memory ions ago, ford thames van?? with slide wedge type handrake??

Thames van, the one in the original italian job, the crew bus type van in white with lots of fan noise?? Thats engine fan noise not the occupants :D

The adjuster will free off with some heat but be careful the 7/16 nuts don't shear the studs off.

The shoes ( asbestos!! ) if not down to the rivets could be re used.

Cant remember if wheel cylinder is nutted on.

Transmission brake?? similar set up or land rover type?? more pictures!!

ps girling and lockheed seals will have part numbers on them i may have some old parts books buried in the shed, will have a look.
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nuts about bikes

[nightshaddow]

nice one bikenut lots for me to go on there

going tomorrow to look at the transmission brake but if it helps here is some pics of the back end and the transmission brake

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12745838_10154022813583846_6786206061111834040_n.jpg?oh=625caef83fee4ca5220ef1fac7332225&oe=572574DF

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/1483335_10154022813588846_5307234844790838381_n.jpg?oh=a25f8cccc9f015474347134debfe2dfc&oe=57709804

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12717512_10154022813573846_900798838282043897_n.jpg?oh=66055651f73aa6dc33c8b7590b21a146&oe=5763EBBA

will look more into the braking system after we have got it rolling which means hopefully freeing off the transmission brake tomorrow hopefully, once we have done that we can check the gearbox and clutch and the general operation to see if the machine is salvageable
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[sickpup]

The Manufacturer is now owned by Cobham, worth a call to find out if they have a parts list in the archives. It was built after 1946 in Berkshire and likely designed by Marcel Lobelle.

If you can find an Asset code you will be able to find out its history. As it is you have a contract No. and the RAF museum in Hendon may be able to drag out a few details.

The master cylinder looks Lucas/Girling to me so I suspect the slaves are the same. If they have a part No. on them, most do then have a look on the Mister Auto site, they are the cheapest I can find for Lucas/Girling.

Finally join the HMVF, chances are someone has a manual for it on there or can direct you to someone who does.

[nightshaddow]

nice one sickpup will get onto that shortly,

will soon have another update too been there this morning got some more done
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[nightshaddow]

OK so we have tackled the transmission brake and freed off the drive train here is what's behind the plate,

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12717231_10154023964458846_1234436879018135341_n.jpg?oh=f1266638c148881cf16416ce4546e284&oe=57540041

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12734267_10154023964463846_875733508711201193_n.jpg?oh=307ce3f152a18f21df2283d428a5d411&oe=575A4EAB

as you can see a very basic drum and shoe setup and it mostly looks pretty good and as opposed to the wheel drums this looks like it could be salvageable.

once freed off we decided to to check the transmission and take it for a walk to make sure the gearbox and clutch was fully functioning ...........

it was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49S9wVU1TW4&feature=youtu.be

so in realism all we have left to sort is the brakes
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[Wonko The Sane]

[Andy_Pagin]

[Evil Hans]

That transmission brake looks exactly like a mini rear backplate and drum ... What are the dimensions?
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Triumph Sprint ST 1050. And it's Red.

[Evil Hans]

... Land Rover backplate is different - and (I may be wrong) I don't think any of the LR transmission brakes were hydraulic.
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Triumph Sprint ST 1050. And it's Red.

[bikenut]

//yes looks very much like a mini the bmc one rear brake set up minus the cable operated handbrake parts.

can you take another picture of the axle brakes pluming, more detail.

centrifugal clutch?? the clutch may very well be stuck, so bear that in mind!!

had an other look, so the axle brakes and transmission brake are coupled hydraulically, plumed together.

the hand on the steering handle controls the hydraulic brakes?

the axle has rods to the axle handbrake, so the large handle with the round knob is the handbrake???

red handle is handbrake????

steering lever lever throttle???

reaction hydraulic brake????????????? more pictures
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nuts about bikes

[Andy_Pagin]

[c_dug]

OP, I work at the Science Museum, we have all sorts of records of this sort of thing. If you PM me any details you have (names, model numbers, anything identifying at all) I'll get our documentation guys to do a search and see if I can dig up anything relevant.

Far from promising anything, but it's worth a shot.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Wonko The Sane]

[Evil Hans]