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50 miles from a full tank?!

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Hefty
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 12 Jun 2016    Post subject: 50 miles from a full tank?! Reply with quote

Only getting 50 or so miles from a full tank on my '98 Hornet.

I'd read the tank range was low but never actually looked up what I should be getting.. Apparently I should expect at least 90 miles before flipping the reserve switch. Up until now i'd just made a habit of filling up periodically so it didnt matter, but the other day on my way to work I ran out of fuel at 47 miles & used the reserve to get to the nearest station.

Only had the bike just under a month Neutral

Am I leaking fuel? I'm noticing or smelling anything. Could it be a carb problem? How would I check either? I'd like to avoid going to a garage as moneys bloody tight right now. Any help would be appreciated Praying
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 12 Jun 2016    Post subject: Re: 50 miles from a full tank?! Reply with quote

Hefty wrote:
Only getting 50 or so miles from a full tank on my '98 Hornet.


Because Hefty.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 12 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple things to check:

You're not being heavy handed on the throttle.

Check your brakes aren't dragging/seized. A quick way to test is if you can roll it around freely. If it needs leaning into to push it around then you may have seized brakes.

Another way is after a ride spit on your discs. Seized discs will be much hotter than normal brakes.

On the Hornet it takes 2 or so hours to de-seize them. Or 30 mins on the back.

Air filter, undo the tank bolts lift it up and open the airbox.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 12 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your tank is full of chippings or your engine oil level is getting higher or somebody is nicking your fuel.
Check the spark plugs colour.
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Fin
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PostPosted: 00:18 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

you sure the tank is full to the very top?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 06:35 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get someone to ride behind you for a bit. Seems to be a thing with Hornets that when you follow behind them you're breathing in neat petrol vapour. There's one I sometimes see on the A2 that I have to get past ASAP coz it makes me want to puke.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Hornet is notorious for having a tank with a deep filler neck that's a sod to get properly full, plus a good 4 litres of it remains inaccessible on the RHS away from the petcock. Even so, 50 miles is ludicrous and sounds like you've got a fuelling problem. Is racebike?
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 07:39 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last time I got awful mileage it was because I had a fuel leak. Do you park in a garage and is there a strong smell of petrol every time you get the bike out? I did, and for the first few days I thought it was my old petrol generator.
If the bike's parked outside you might not notice a small leak easily.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 07:51 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

First work out actual mpg.
Fill the tank up to a point where you can see the fuel level.
Ride normally for say 40 miles.
Refill at the same petrol station, preferably the same pump, to the same level as before.

40_miles / litres_you_refuelled = miles_per_litre
miles_per_litre / 0.22 = mpg
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Holdawayt
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PostPosted: 08:47 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get just over 100 miles to a tank on my 99 hornet before switching over to reserve.
Definitely look at your brakes or see about getting the carbs set up properly.
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Hefty
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Annoyingly im stuck at work today & possibly tonight so I can't give it the once over.

jnw010 wrote:

Do you park in a garage and is there a strong smell of petrol every time you get the bike out?


It's not garaged, its outside but I do have a rain cover on it. Do you think i'd get a smell straight after taking the cover off?

Rogerborg wrote:

The Hornet is notorious for having a tank with a deep filler neck that's a sod to get properly full, plus a good 4 litres of it remains inaccessible on the RHS away from the petcock. Even so, 50 miles is ludicrous and sounds like you've got a fuelling problem. Is racebike?


I'd read that elsewhere too, so the last time I filled up I sat on the bike keeping it level, filled to the very top then waited a bit.. as you said after a short wait the fuel level dropped a little, and I could squeeze more in. However not enough extra to make up 40-odd miles though? Thinking

jaffa90 wrote:
Your tank is full of chippings or your engine oil level is getting higher


No other way to check for crap other than dumping the fuel I guess? Oil level has remained pretty constant so far. What would cause the oil level to rise and how would that affect my mpg?

Itchy wrote:
Check your brakes aren't dragging/seized. A quick way to test is if you can roll it around freely. If it needs leaning into to push it around then you may have seized brakes.

Another way is after a ride spit on your discs. Seized discs will be much hotter than normal brakes.


The first time I ran out of fuel I had to push it to the side of the road as I couldn't find the petcock immediately by hand, and my first thought was fuck me this weighs a bit Confused You might be right there. Is that a caliper or disc issue though? I'll see if I can grab some brake cleaner and a brush on the way home from work and give the calipers a good clean & see if that helps.

Pete. wrote:
Get someone to ride behind you for a bit.

Annoyingly I don't have any biking mates that I could call up to help out.

edit: after a quick search on the calipers found this:

chris-red back in 2011 wrote:

You need to buy somethings,

I can of brake cleaner (£5)
a 2 pack of toothbrushes (Tesco value 10p)
Silicon Grease (£??)
Copperslip (£??)
Take them off (one at a time) take the pads and clips out, pull the brake lever and watch the pistons in the caliper move. Make sure none of them come out too far. If not all your pistons are moving it is seized. The best way to free the seized one is hold the moving pistons in with you hand a squeeze the brake lever a fer times this should free it off.

The pistons will likely be covered in Shit, using the brake lever squeeze out all the pistons evenly until you can see clean metal.

*If you squeeze too much you will pop a piston out and have to bleed the brakes*

Once there are all out use the brake cleaner to blast off all the shit any stubborn muck will have to be shifted with the tooth brake. Use liberal amounts of brake cleaner.

Once all the pistons are clean apply the silicon grease to all the pistons then squeeze them back in so they are flush with the caliper This can be tricky with 4 piston calipers. Then put the pads etc back in using copperslip on the backs of the pads and on the retaining pin/any parts you need to remove the pads.

Then do the other one a nice easy satisfying job. Thumbs Up


Is that pretty much bang-on? Anyone have anything else to add.
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Last edited by Hefty on 12:50 - 13 Jun 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
The Hornet is notorious for having a tank with a deep filler neck that's a sod to get properly full, plus a good 4 litres of it remains inaccessible on the RHS away from the petcock. Even so, 50 miles is ludicrous and sounds like you've got a fuelling problem. Is racebike?


You could drill a 6-8mm hole in the side of the filler neck. The height you drill the hole at determines the new fill level. Worth an extra 10 miles range on my bike.
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Shinigami
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% something wrong, I can't really offer more advice than that above however my 03 hornet did around 120 miles per tank and that was a knackered 96k engine.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hefty wrote:


The first time I ran out of fuel I had to push it to the side of the road as I couldn't find the petcock immediately by hand, and my first thought was fuck me this weighs a bit Confused You might be right there. Is that a caliper or disc issue though? I'll see if I can grab some brake cleaner and a brush on the way home from work and give the calipers a good clean & see if that helps.



edit: after a quick search on the calipers found this:

chris-red back in 2011 wrote:

You need to buy somethings,

I can of brake cleaner (£5)
a 2 pack of toothbrushes (Tesco value 10p)
Silicon Grease (£??)
Copperslip (£??)
Take them off (one at a time) take the pads and clips out, pull the brake lever and watch the pistons in the caliper move. Make sure none of them come out too far. If not all your pistons are moving it is seized. The best way to free the seized one is hold the moving pistons in with you hand a squeeze the brake lever a fer times this should free it off.

The pistons will likely be covered in Shit, using the brake lever squeeze out all the pistons evenly until you can see clean metal.

*If you squeeze too much you will pop a piston out and have to bleed the brakes*

Once there are all out use the brake cleaner to blast off all the shit any stubborn muck will have to be shifted with the tooth brake. Use liberal amounts of brake cleaner.

Once all the pistons are clean apply the silicon grease to all the pistons then squeeze them back in so they are flush with the caliper This can be tricky with 4 piston calipers. Then put the pads etc back in using copperslip on the backs of the pads and on the retaining pin/any parts you need to remove the pads.

Then do the other one a nice easy satisfying job. Thumbs Up


Is that pretty much bang-on? Anyone have anything else to add.



Personally I recommend popping the brake pistons. IIRC (which I don't) the Honda Hornet has twin sliding callipers rather than twin opposed callipers.

What you want is four pieces of wood that you can put between the brake pistons. You can use the bits of wood to 'lock off' the other pistons so only one gets pushed out. Push it out using the brake lever carefully then push it back in.

If you go to far it goes pop and lets air into the system. You're not narfed on how to get the other 3 pistons out as there will be no pressure in the system.

Using blocks of wood you can extend them all to a maximum amount and not pop the pistons or you can extend them individually. If you put them out about 1.5cm-1.75cm you can usually grab them and pull them out anyway.



On my NTV with single sliding calliper it took 35 minutes. I did it at the side of the road with my underseat tool kit.


Top tip!

You can check the seizing or not by pushing it around. Still not sure? Then stick a hammer or something under the swing arm which will raise the rear. Then try spin the wheel. The back should spin ok but has to drag the chain so will stop quickly. It should however spin with a slight push. If you need to give it some oomph it's seized. Back brakes are easy to clean.

The front is the same but the hammer goes under your footpegs turned upside down. It lifts the front wheel which should spin freely with a small push.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fin wrote:
you sure the tank is full to the very top?


This, just because the nozzle at the pump clicks doesn't mean your tank is full. I hold the nozzle almost out of the tank to get a full 25ltr in. If I don't I just get about 16ltr.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hefty wrote:

It's not garaged, its outside but I do have a rain cover on it. Do you think i'd get a smell (of petrol) straight after taking the cover off.


Unlikely. A small leak will evaporate fairly quickly in open air.
To be fair, Triumph tank connectors were known for developing leaks. Not aware of Hornets having any such issues, but it's worth a quick look round for any wetness.

Staying on the topic of fuel, how many litres are you getting into the tank when you fill up?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 13 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even pinning it everywhere you should get way more miles per gallon.

Not convinced about the brakes binding. I would think they would be glowing red if they were holding a bike back that badly.
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myvision
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PostPosted: 07:32 - 14 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2002 hornet I start looking for a garage around the 100 mile mark the one time I had to go to the reserve was at 120 miles but I had only just got it then so was steady away. (still steady but improving).
It does take a while to fill though even when you think it's full you can squeeze more in just let it settle then add more repeat until it doesn't settle takes a while but works.
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Hefty
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 14 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Even pinning it everywhere you should get way more miles per gallon.

Not convinced about the brakes binding. I would think they would be glowing red if they were holding a bike back that badly.


I dont notice any resistance when pushing it back & forth, & the discs wernt any hotter than I would expect from my commute to work. Last MOT was april that would have picked up binding brakes surely?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 14 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hefty wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Even pinning it everywhere you should get way more miles per gallon.

Not convinced about the brakes binding. I would think they would be glowing red if they were holding a bike back that badly.


I dont notice any resistance when pushing it back & forth, & the discs wernt any hotter than I would expect from my commute to work. Last MOT was april that would have picked up binding brakes surely?


From that they aren't binding. You need to look elsewhere for your problem.
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