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YB100 oil pump seal change without splitting?

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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 15:06 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: YB100 oil pump seal change without splitting? Reply with quote
There's a slight oil leak into the oil pump/carb area of the wifes YB100. Looks very much like gearbox oil and I'm pretty sure it's coming from somewhere behind the oil pump suggesting the oil seal around the pump drive shaft is shot.

Anyone know if it can be pulled and changed from the outside? The workshop manual is not very extensive and only describes driving one in and out of split crankcases.

If it can't be changed in-situ, I'll leave it alone for now because it's only a few cc coming though when it gets hot but it's marking its territory when parked up.

It'll be identical to an FS1E setup. Visually looks very like the oil pump setup on an RXS100 (and most other Yamahas of that era by the look of things) but with less room to get at it due to crankcase induction. The seal itself is the same part number.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why not just buy a sealand see what it looks like? If it's plain and not lipped then you should be able to pull it from the outside and drive a new one in.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think you'll need to split the cover off and withdraw the pump shaft to change the seal. I don't think it's accesible from the pump side.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 06 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
have to split im afraid Sad

www.yammy100.com may be able to advise when you do so.

or mod the frame a little and put a dt 125 engine in.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 07 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/yamaha-yb100-1987-18n-england-2718n-310e1-oil-pump_big3IMG00984289_831b.gif

are you talking about number 17??


or am i looking at the complete wrong place.


have you got a seal/oring puller?? best £3 tool ever,

hammer it into offending seal and lever it out.

also bloody handy on fork seals.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 07 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
It'll be part 14. Although it looks like there's a paper gasket in there too which I wasn't aware of.

I'll see about pulling the pump and seeing properly where it's coming from. The overspill seems too dirty to be 2-stroke (and doesn't smell of strawberries).
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 07 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
sorry i meant 14.
surely if oil was getting past that seal, then there'd also be air/fuel as well and you'd be able to feel it when the bike was running.
does your pump inject oil on both side of the crank or just the intake side,
my bridgestone only injects on the intake side of each cylinder.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 08 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
hmmmnz wrote:
sorry i meant 14.
surely if oil was getting past that seal, then there'd also be air/fuel as well and you'd be able to feel it when the bike was running.
does your pump inject oil on both side of the crank or just the intake side,
my bridgestone only injects on the intake side of each cylinder.


Nah, the pump comes from the gearbox (pretty sure it does anyway). The bits either side of that seal aren't pressurised (or it shouldn't be). If anything, there may be a slight vacuum on the pump side due to air induction passing thrugh there.

It's a super simple bike, the pump drips oil into the inlet manifold area of the carb. Essentially auto-mixing rather than injecting.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 08 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok, i get ya,
so the pump has nothing at all to do with the crank.
and you reckon its possiblly gear box oil

having a look at the diagrams, id say you'd be able to get out any seal with out having to split the crank,

seal puller for the win
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Banana_B1 wrote:

Remove pump cable from throttle Y splitter - take pump off - split cases - take pump drive gear and shaft off - install pump blanking plate - 2 sizes larger main jet - 4 sizes larger pilot jet - premix oil with fuel @32:1 = less moving parts/less engine drag/no vacuum pipe leakage = 4 less things to go wrong and 4 less things to replace or service + small weight saving Thumbs Up


I'm sorry, but this advice seems questionable at best. Where did you get it?

Firstly, that seems like an enormous change in jetting compared to a tiny alteration in fuel stoichiometry. Even at 32:1 you're only decreasing the fuel content of each charge by 1/32. So requiring a 3% increase in fuel delivery

32:1 is also an enormous amount of 2-stroke oil. I've had many premix strokers and even my most basic, lowest compression russian 125 only went as low as 40:1, and it was a self-propelled smog cloud. I can't think of any 2t motorcycle engine that would run at 32%

I confidently predict following the above advice would result in a crisp-revving little stroker turning into an ill-running smoke machine that bogs on throttle opening and conks out every 10 miles with oiled up plugs.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Banana_B1 wrote:

Remove pump cable from throttle Y splitter - take pump off - split cases - take pump drive gear and shaft off - install pump blanking plate - 2 sizes larger main jet - 4 sizes larger pilot jet - premix oil with fuel @32:1 = less moving parts/less engine drag/no vacuum pipe leakage = 4 less things to go wrong and 4 less things to replace or service + small weight saving Thumbs Up


I'm sorry, but this advice seems questionable at best. Where did you get it?

Firstly, that seems like an enormous change in jetting compared to a tiny alteration in fuel stoichiometry. Even at 32:1 you're only decreasing the fuel content of each charge by 1/32. So requiring a 3% increase in fuel delivery

32:1 is also an enormous amount of 2-stroke oil. I've had many premix strokers and even my most basic, lowest compression russian 125 only went as low as 40:1, and it was a self-propelled smog cloud. I can't think of any 2t motorcycle engine that would run at 32%

I confidently predict following the above advice would result in a crisp-revving little stroker turning into an ill-running smoke machine that bogs on throttle opening and conks out every 10 miles with oiled up plugs.


it is pretty much as he says.. however its also as you say.

providing you spend an age making it run right again on the premix itll work...

however why cut off your balls to scratch your arse
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is the point in premixing a stock YB100? I'm converting my YR5 to premix cause I'm tuning it and using carbs without oil injection points, but I'd never do it on a standard bike that gets ridden on the roads 99% of the time.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Banana_B1 wrote:

My own stock 2 stroke runs on 28:1 mix ratio and revs to 9,200 rpm' more oil deposits on plugs won't turn it into an ill-running smoke machine that bogs on throttle opening and conks out every 10 miles. I use non resistor plugs that don't fail so easily from deposits etc.. the oil pump churned out 32:1, premixing the same amount is hardly enormous.


So what is it then. A Scott Squirrel?

Seems a lot. Even my Jawa 350 ran on 50:1.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've changed the stock oil pump on several bikes,once after a big seizure. Not sure what bananacunt is on about. Had more seizures caused by ring pegs coming adrift then oil pump issues. Ignorant prick.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Banana_B1 wrote:

Read this Arrow https://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm castor bean oil is a thicker viscosity and gets thicker with increasing temperatures, so 32:1 is paramount for tarmac riding with cheap n cheerful JASO FB spec mineral or overpriced synthetic FC/FD Snake Oil.


Interesting article.

What it actually said was the oil ratio required is dependant on expected rev speed.

Hence cable operated pumps. Which are good.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 10 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Banana_B1 wrote:
Although after riding around on a few Lambretta GP's and Tomos mopeds i prefer the old rugged simplicity of premixing w/o the worry of keeping an eye on the DIY pump clamp and oil tank level etc..


My first bike was a 2-speed tomos. Pretty sure it ran on 70:1 premix. Has a measuring cup in the fuel cap.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 11 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Banana_B1 wrote:

1 thing i learnt while filling up at fuel pumps was not to pour fuel in before oil as the oil would sink straight to the bottom - even after pumping the forks with front brake applied to shake it up.


Depends on the brand.

Rock oil synthesis pre-mix oil disperses almost instantly.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Banana_B1 This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.
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