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| sayton1211 |
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sayton1211
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sayton1211
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sayton1211
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| Ed Case |
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Ed Case
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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 Posted: 21:46 - 08 Oct 2016  Post subject: |
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I've yet to see a cg stand pivot that could be easily removed. They really are the work of the devil.
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a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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Commuter_Tim
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 23:44 - 08 Oct 2016 Post subject: Re: cg centre stand pin |
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| sayton1211 wrote: | ok cool so need to give a good whack from the spilit pin end correct ? |
NOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In all liklihood all you will succeed in doing is mashing up the split pin end so you cant even get the split pin back in, and the mangled mess wont EVER go through the hole in the stand!!!!
The usual niggle is that the hollow pivot pin, corroded into the stand, and then the stand turns it in the eyes in the frame, rather than rotating around it; pin carries on rusting solid in the stand, and the eyes in the frame get worn oval by it, and wear a groove in the pin, until the pin gets so thin that it wears through.
WHY do you want to remove it?
Unless its already completely shot; you are likely to make more problems than you solve, and end up having to cut the stand off altogether. If you don't have to remove it, leave it alone.
If you must take it off......
DONT try smacking the hollow pin out from the split-pin side; certainly not directly.
First course; PLUS GAS 'penetrating oil'... not fucking water-dispersant WD40... PLUS GAS.. spray the pin and give it time to creep into the stand.
Then try and hold the stand and twist the pin, to get some movement and release the hold the corrosion has.. apply more plus-gas, and repeat.
I have, managed to free up a very stubborn one, by drilling three small, 2mm holes into the pivot of the stand and squibbing penatrating oil into the holes to get it deep into the area where they are corroded together, and using the twist technique....
BUT.. unfortunate fact is ultimately they nearly always end up having to be cut out, using a hack-saw on the pivot pin both sides of the stand, to leave you with two pin ends and a stand with a section of pivot tube rustwelded inside.... getting THAT out is the tricky bit.. but using a hacksaw blade threaded through the hollow, you can slot it, get penetrating oil into the slot, and then nibble it out carefully, breaking the corrosion by chisseling the exposed corners of the split into the middle away from the stand, and lots of wiggling and twisting until it's loose and will pull out with mole grips or pliers.
VERY likely, though that the actual stand will start to show its weakspots in the effort and legs bend, or crack.. in which case it was fucked before you started... sorry!
IF you can preserve the stand, or after pin removal, make good.. which I have to say is a risky business... these things tend to get rather than, and you can end up chasing good metal to weld to to still end up with nothing of use! But IF you can salvage the stand, though, you stand a chance of being able to get a new pin; I believe they are still available off the shelf from Dave-silvers if you know the part number; and I have found one or two New-Old-Stock on e-bay..... You do NOT see them come up very often 'used'.... I wonder why 
BUT, you will usually have the ovalated eyes in the frame still to contend with.
On the current Super-Dream project; (Uses same stand arrangement) I have managed to salvage the stand itself; but horibly ovalated frame eyes; rather than trying to rebuild with weld and then re-drill; I had a mate turn down a pair of 'top hat' shaped bushes that sit in the stand eye and have thin 'lip' that covers the ovalated area and holds the bush in place; that bush then has I think an M10 hole down the middle, and to plain bushes with similar hole were pressed into th stand, which was then packed with grease, and given a long M10 pin to pivot on... not as cheap as a hollow pin.... or as 'easy'... but saved welding the frame, and the stand now pivots on the bushes, not the frame eyes!
Decent used stands dont seem to come up very often... again, I wonder why... so if you cant salvage the original, you may have to abandon it.
Common solution is often to use an aftermarket side-stand; often sold for customs/cruisers or 'streeting' dirt bikes.
Cruiser stands come in a few forms, some clamp to the lower frame rails .. which isn't much good on a CG that don't have none!or are supplied like OE side-stands, and come with a lug to weld to the frame.... which is more involved and would only really go onto the old center stand eyes, and could foul pegs.. but if you can weld? probably not insurmountable. DirtBike stands, often clamp to the swing arm, and may be easier to fit.
Conveniently though, Honda CD125/185/200's have a 'foot-peg' assembly that bolts to unused mounting holes on the engine, which I believe the CG125 motor shares.... so bolts straight on, and has a side stand on it.... if you dont want the foot-pegs? they come off with a hack-saw! These do come up quite often on e-bay and for not too silly money.....
BUT, those are the sort of options.. IF it proves a lost cause when you have got the thing off....
So like I say... unless you CANNOT live with it... probably best to leave it the fuck alone!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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stinkwheel
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Teflon-Mike
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stinkwheel
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Posted: 10:48 - 09 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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A full on Triple post Tef.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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sayton1211
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Rob Fzs
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 01:11 - 11 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: | they're only like 20 quid new off david silvers, you'll only end up smashing something worth more trying to undo the pin |
Trouble with chopping the ends of the pin, is that while you may get the stand out in a hurry... you still have to get the corroded in remains of pin out of the stand some-how.
Pete did it 'Old skool' with patience and persistence, and 'minimum brute force' and if you have the time, it pays, not only in the £20 saving on a new pivot pin, but likely saving damage to fragile center stand along the way.
The one I described doing with drill holes and plus gas, that way, was fully salvaged... slowly, and the frame it belongs to resting back on it built up as a 'roller' waiting an engine.
OP says his stands already cracked a leg, though; and having turned the air blue trying to salvage one like that, and ended up achieving nothing more than a hole in the garden fence when I lobbed it in disgust, after managing to get it out and get the pin out of it, and spend two days chasing good metal to weld it up... I think I would probably be cutting to the inevitable & reaching for the angry grinder rather than the hacksaw, and digging through the piles of 'ready spares' or looking on ebay for a CM or CD footrest bracket with side stand to bolt to the motor to prop it up after!
One I did with the top hat bushes, was taken out with a hack-saw; but I saved the stand, but took three threaded hacksaw slots to loosen the pivot tube enough to peel it out, without doing 'too' much damage to the stand. (Probably 1/4 of the tube came out as saw-dust!) As I already had a side-stand bracket on the engine for that one, I would have probably not bothered, but for the fact that my daughter wanted that bike.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rob Fzs |
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Rob Fzs
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Posted: 07:02 - 11 Oct 2016  Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | Rob Fzs wrote: | they're only like 20 quid new off david silvers, you'll only end up smashing something worth more trying to undo the pin |
Trouble with chopping the ends of the pin, is that while you may get the stand out in a hurry... you still have to get the corroded in remains of pin out of the stand some-how.
Pete did it 'Old skool' with patience and persistence, and 'minimum brute force' and if you have the time, it pays, not only in the £20 saving on a new pivot pin, but likely saving damage to fragile center stand along the way.
The one I described doing with drill holes and plus gas, that way, was fully salvaged... slowly, and the frame it belongs to resting back on it built up as a 'roller' waiting an engine.
OP says his stands already cracked a leg, though; and having turned the air blue trying to salvage one like that, and ended up achieving nothing more than a hole in the garden fence when I lobbed it in disgust, after managing to get it out and get the pin out of it, and spend two days chasing good metal to weld it up... I think I would probably be cutting to the inevitable & reaching for the angry grinder rather than the hacksaw, and digging through the piles of 'ready spares' or looking on ebay for a CM or CD footrest bracket with side stand to bolt to the motor to prop it up after!
One I did with the top hat bushes, was taken out with a hack-saw; but I saved the stand, but took three threaded hacksaw slots to loosen the pivot tube enough to peel it out, without doing 'too' much damage to the stand. (Probably 1/4 of the tube came out as saw-dust!) As I already had a side-stand bracket on the engine for that one, I would have probably not bothered, but for the fact that my daughter wanted that bike. |
The stand is fucked, as OP said.
Even then, you just cut a slot along side the top of the stand, lube it up and slam the pin out with a big hammer and then weld it back up again.
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30> Yamaha RD350 YPVS F2 > Kawasaki ZZR 600 D1 > Yamaha TZR 250 2MA >Suzuki TL1000R > Yamaha TDR250 > Honda 929 blade > Suzuki SV1000 > Honda H100
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Petemate
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 09:59 - 11 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: | Even then, you just cut a slot along side the top of the stand, lube it up and slam the pin out with a big hammer and then weld it back up again. |
Well you can try it!! Let us know how it goes!
Reason for drilling holes to get plus gas into the pivot tube, was/is to avoid slotting the stand, and making more work / risk.
Reason you cant get the pin out to start with is because its rusted in the tube in the stand, so you aren't dealing with good metal; & I'd not be too keen to try filling a hacksaw or dremel slot, what 1-2mm wide and four inches long with weld.. and THEN trying to get a pin to go back in the hole, AND the stand to rotate round that pin.... even if it was good metal!
And no real need. If you are chopping the pin to drop the stand from the frame; you have the whole stand in your hand, and you only want to get the remains of pin out.
Why cut the bit you'd like to keep?
Thread the hacksaw blade through the pivot pin, and refix in the hacksaw', then slot the pin from the inside. If you keep the hacksaw 'flat' you can cut right through the pin, and leave barely a witness mark on the tube of the stand....
If you have enough of the pin protruding from the tube, you may be able to grab it with pliers or grips and twist; the slot letting the pin contract enough to break rustgrip and pull out with a little wiggling.
If not; thread the hack-saw again and cut two more slots at 120deg to the first; cold chissel and a hammer, and tap into the crack between the pin and the tube and and bend the end into the middle away from the tube, they you can work the chissel into the gap to break it away down the length, and it should pull out with pliers... if not work it from the other end the same way, and the first section will drop out. Next two sections can be removed the same way, but with more of a gap to bash the 'petals' into
Same conclusion, no welding required; much less risk of buggering up the stand you hope to keep in the process, and probably no more time or effort.
Save the metalic glue gun and the dremmel for building up the ovals of the frame eyes!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 9 years, 130 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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