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10 litres of petrol in 40 miles

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uglyworld333
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Joined: 28 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: 10 litres of petrol in 40 miles Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Bought this 2008 zx6r from a dealer the other day (not official kawasaki daeler). It has 19000 miles on it, and I straight away noticed a problem with this bike (it was delivered, and I trusted the dealer saying that the bike is in good running condition, as I know I have a warranty and can return it anytime I want). At first the bikes revs would stay at 3k rpm when revved up and then go back down in about a second or so. So I took this bike to kawasaki dealer and they said they will probably have to balance out the throttle bodies. Now an even bigger problem has popped up, the bike did 40 miles of riding and used up 10 litres of petrol. I called kawasaki again, they said this issue could still be related to the throttle body balance. I will have them balanced this wednesday, but maybe someone here has any idea what could be happening with the crazy petrol consumption? I don't see any leaks on the bike, FI light is flashing but it's because the stock exhaust was removed.

Would appreciate any help. Bike itself runs okay, there is some black smoke coming from the exhaust when revved above 5K RPM, so I am assuming it is running rich, but no way it should be burning that much petrol. As a side note, I will be returning the bike back, if the problems are not fixed by sorting out the throttle bodies or asking the dealer to cover all of the costs.
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reject the bike under consumer rights act 2015.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act


/thread.
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uglyworld333
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I shouldn't even bother trying to sort it out even if the dealer is willing to cover the cost? Returning the bike would waste a lot of my time, as I use it to commute as well, and the dealership is 200 miles away from me. Obviously I will be returning it, if it's something costly and time consuming to fix.
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't bother they're not a rare bike and to use 10l of fuel in 40 miles sounds like much more of an issue than just unbalanced throttle bodies.

Send it back, buy a non lemon.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
So I shouldn't even bother trying to sort it out even if the dealer is willing to cover the cost?


Why would you? You already know it's been punted on to a dealer because it's a bag of nails, and they've punted it straight onto a customer as a bag of nails which completely negates the 'peace of mind' you'd get from buying from a dealer.

Why you'd buy a bike 200 miles away is beyond me.

Reject it. /thread.
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the coolant temp sensor maybe knackered, simple thing to let the dealer try . . .
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 litres in 40 miles? Is that roughly 70 miles on a full tank?
That's either a leak or significant over fuelling.
Either way it's not in good running order which is what you paid for. Send it back.

If it was me I might have a look at the state of the plugs to see if it is over fueling and check the throttle bodies, but if it's such a simple fix why did they send it out like that?
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:
Sounds like the coolant temp sensor maybe knackered, simple thing to let the dealer try . . .


Surprised that didn't come up on their 110 point peace of mind check-over....
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
but if it's such a simple fix why did they send it out like that?


because simple fixes are usually the expensive sort..
like replacing the exhaust because its a race example...
or havin the ECU flashed.. because the standard map over fuels when there is no lambada readin input..
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: 10 litres of petrol in 40 miles Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
Hey guys,

Bought this 2008 zx6r from a dealer the other day (not official kawasaki daeler). It has 19000 miles on it, and I straight away noticed a problem with this bike (it was delivered, and I trusted the dealer saying that the bike is in good running condition, as I know I have a warranty and can return it anytime I want). At first the bikes revs would stay at 3k rpm when revved up and then go back down in about a second or so. So I took this bike to kawasaki dealer and they said they will probably have to balance out the throttle bodies. Now an even bigger problem has popped up, the bike did 40 miles of riding and used up 10 litres of petrol. I called kawasaki again, they said this issue could still be related to the throttle body balance. I will have them balanced this wednesday, but maybe someone here has any idea what could be happening with the crazy petrol consumption? I don't see any leaks on the bike, FI light is flashing but it's because the stock exhaust was removed.

Would appreciate any help. Bike itself runs okay, there is some black smoke coming from the exhaust when revved above 5K RPM, so I am assuming it is running rich, but no way it should be burning that much petrol. As a side note, I will be returning the bike back, if the problems are not fixed by sorting out the throttle bodies or asking the dealer to cover all of the costs.


Is it? You know that for sure? So they have removed the O2 sensor and just left it at that? Surely that rings alarm bells with you on how the dealer has prepared the bike?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: 10 litres of petrol in 40 miles Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
not official kawasaki daeler [...] So I took this bike to kawasaki dealer

You did what?

Clarify this for me, you already paid a dealer premium for a 9 year old bike, and now instead of calling them and saying "Sort, or refund", you're thinking of flushing Kawasaki main dealer money away at a different outfit to start guessing about what the problem might be? Eh?


uglyworld333 wrote:
As a side note, I will be returning the bike back, if the problems are not fixed by sorting out the throttle bodies or asking the dealer to cover all of the costs.

Why would they pay the costs for a different dealer to sort it out when you've given them no opportunity to do so themselves? I'm all for sticking it to dealers getting what you paid for, but under the circumstances they'd be right to tell you to do one.

If you want that dealer to sort it, call them and tell them. If you want them to refund, call them and tell them. Don't hold onto it one second longer than necessary and don't let anyone else work on it beyond a diagnosis, which you've already had done (although I imagine it was a wild guess).

Can we see a picture of your bike with a tin of custard, please.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: 10 litres of petrol in 40 miles Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
So I took this bike to kawasaki dealer and they said they will probably have to balance out the throttle bodies. Now an even bigger problem has popped up, the bike did 40 miles of riding and used up 10 litres of petrol. I called kawasaki again, they said this issue could still be related to the throttle body balance.


Whoever said that is full of shit.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: 10 litres of petrol in 40 miles Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
uglyworld333 wrote:
not official kawasaki daeler [...] So I took this bike to kawasaki dealer

You did what?
Can we see a picture of your bike with a tin of custard, please.


Hadn't spotted that bit. Was thinking it was a bit socky.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess I would say that there's a hose or a plug off one of the sensors - the air temp sensor or (more likely) the manifold pressure sensor.

Google finds this:

https://www.zxforums.com/forums/mechanical-technical/12891-07-zx6r-fi-light.html

Quote:
Self diagnosis flow chart:
Turn Ignition off
Turn Ignition on
Display the odometer and Push the mode button
for more than two seconds. The self diagnosis
mode starts.
The service code is then displayed on the LCD
display.
If there is more than one code they should cycle at 2 sec intervals.

Service Code Table
Service Code Problems
11 Main throttle sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
12 Inlet air pressure sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
13 Inlet air temperature sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
14 Water temperature sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
15 Atmospheric pressure sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
21 Crankshaft sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
23 Camshaft position sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
24 Speed sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
25 Gear position switch malfunction, wiring open or short
31 Vehicle-down sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
32 Subthrottle sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
33 Oxygen sensor #1 inactivation, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)
34 Exhaust butterfly valve actuator sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
35 Immobilizer amplifier malfunction
36 Blank Key detection
39 ECU communication error
51 Stick coil #1 malfunction, wiring open or short
52 Stick coil #2 malfunction, wiring open or short
53 Stick coil #3 malfunction, wiring open or short
54 Stick coil #4 malfunction, wiring open or short
56 Radiator fan relay malfunction, wiring open or short
62 Subthrottle valve actuator malfunction, wiring open or short
63 Exhaust butterfly valve actuator malfunction, wiring open or short
64 Air switching valve malfunction, wiring open or short
67 Oxygen sensor heater malfunction, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)
83 Oxygen Sensor #2 inactivation, wiring open or shout (Equipped Models)
94 Oxygen sensor #1 malfunction, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)
95 Oxygen sensor #2 malfunction, wiring open or short (Equipped Models)


Follow that to identify the cause of your FI light.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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uglyworld333
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Joined: 28 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there, will post the error code later on, but I believe that was already diagnose as butterfly valve by the local kawasaki dealership. The reason why I am not asking the dealer that I bought it from to carry out the job, is because like I mentioned they are around 200 miles away, I got my bike delivered. There is also a loud rattling noise with the bike, but as far as I know zx6r tend to have loud CCT noise, and the mechanics didn't find it strange. I was also told that by putting the bike on dyno, would show the possible issue, maybe I should just do that, so I have a proof there is something wrong with the bike? I'll probably end up not touching it though, and just asking for full refund + to pay for picking the bike up from me, because I read that they should cover those costs as well.
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uglyworld333
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question, can the dealer refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason? I haven't touched the bike and barely ridden it. The only thing that was done to it, was taken to Kawasaki dealer to get diagnosed for sticking throttle and the FI warning. I believe I should be refunded with no questions asked for a month?
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you even spoken to the original dealer about these issues?

They'll almost certainly laugh at you when you begin asking them to cover other garages costs if you haven't already agreed this.
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
Question, can the dealer refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason?


Answer; yes. Good luck.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
uglyworld333 wrote:
Question, can the dealer refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason?


Answer; yes. Good luck.


I take it the sale of goods act doesn't apply in your world.
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

I take it the sale of goods act doesn't apply in your world.


What the law says doesn't stop folk from breaking it. They can still refuse. What our heavily sockish OP does about it is another matter. (SOGA now = Consumer Rights Act btw).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's be clear:

uglyworld333 wrote:
Question, can the dealer legally refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason?

No, not if you reject it unambiguously and as soon as possible.


uglyworld333 wrote:
Question, will the dealer refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason?

I'd be pretty sure of it.

However, you might have bought from a dealer who actually knows and is prepared to honour your statutory rights without being forced to by a court.

Among their other customers will be Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and a man-friendly lesbian.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 28 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
Hi there, will post the error code later on, but I believe that was already diagnose as butterfly valve by the local kawasaki dealership.


Is there any other info that you care to drip-feed us whilst we give our time trying to diagnose your problem for free?
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 29 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
jnw010 wrote:
but if it's such a simple fix why did they send it out like that?


because simple fixes are usually the expensive sort..
like replacing the exhaust because its a race example...
or havin the ECU flashed.. because the standard map over fuels when there is no lambada readin input..


While you're looking into that, don't forget to have your macarena meter checked.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 29 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

uglyworld333 wrote:
Question, can the dealer refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason? I haven't touched the bike and barely ridden it. The only thing that was done to it, was taken to Kawasaki dealer to get diagnosed for sticking throttle and the FI warning. I believe I should be refunded with no questions asked for a month?


Well they can't in theory.... BUT.... You have made it very easy for them to wiggle out of it.
For a start you have to give them chance to fix it. Yes you can get a report on the issue to back up your case. But getting that 3rd party to do any work without approval. Means they can/will say TOUGH and that the 3rd party has caused the fault.

Can you prove they didn't?

So be prepared to suck very hard on the lemon you have bought.....

Unless the dealer is a very good one and is prepared to take the bike back and refund you. But even then I would not expect to get a penny back of what YOU have asked a dealer to do.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 29 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Let's be clear:

uglyworld333 wrote:
Question, can the dealer legally refuse to refund me for the bike for whatever reason?

No, not if you reject it unambiguously and as soon as possible.



They legally have to refund, but can deduct some money for the use you've had from it.

OP must be a sock. Just go and the talk to the original dealer. A race exhaust shouldn't cause an FI light if properly fitted. Sounds like you've been sold a right pup. Balancing the throttle bodies won't help much with the over fuelling. My guess is dodgy flash or a bust O2 sensor. Butterfly valve not working would also throw an FI light.
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